Let or Assist Prisoners to Commit suicide

spen666

I was reading a piece today about potential suicide bomber Dharot who was attacked recently in Frankland Prison whilst serving a 30 year sentence forplotting terrorist attacks.

He was complaining about his treatment in prison. This is a man who was apparently prepared to commit suicide in a terrorist attack.

Then there are people like Ian Huntley, Rose West and others who are never likely to be released.

Should the prison service allow such people to commit suicide and indeed provide the mans for them so to do. The prison Service would save a fortune in not having to look after them for many years. The prisoners would get their wish ( eg Huntley hasd attempted suicide twice)

Or is this too barbaric a thing to contemplate?

alfablue

My feeling is that there would be some suicidal prisoners that would ultimately turn out to be innocent, Stephan Kishko for example, may well have been suicidal at times given his mental state, and he had confessed (falsely) to the murder. Allowing such suicides would be the ultimate and irreversible conclusion to such miscarriages of justice, like the death penalty. Our system of justice assumes the position (maybe not overtly) that it is better to release the guilty than convict the innocent (the burden of proof determines this), though of course it is all about probabilities rather than certainties, and miscarriages are not uncommon, and I believe we should preserve the lives of the convicted at all costs, no matter how unlikely their innocence may seem.

An additional Catch 22 - a prisoner would presumably need to be deemed as having the competence / mental capacity to make such a decision for themselves, however, opting for suicide may be viewed as evidence that they do not have such competence.

The above are merely pragmatic arguments, but emotionally or morally I am against the idea of the state sanctioning killing or suicide in this context.

NFMC

I'd allow it. I'd probably have a noose in every cell.

redddraggon

NFMC wrote:

I'd allow it. I'd probably have a noose in every cell.

I wouldn't, it's a punishment, they should be made to serve their time, they can then do what they want after they get out.

Smeggers

Are we really that cowardly as a society?

spen666

redddraggon wrote:

NFMC wrote:

I'd allow it. I'd probably have a noose in every cell.

I wouldn't, it's a punishment, they should be made to serve their time, they can then do what they want after they get out.

You're happy to pay the cost to keep them in a cell rather than letting them kill themselves?

What about the situation where someone like Huntley attempts suicide and needs treatment to keep him alive - eg the resucitation attempts after he took his overdose.



What about those who want to commit suicide who are not prisoners. Again in media today is stroy of police officer who sends his dog to drag a suicidal man away from clifftop.

spen666

Smeggers wrote:

Are we really that cowardly as a society?

Cowardly in what way?
cowardly to let them die or cowardly to stop them dying?

Smeggers

spen666 wrote:

Smeggers wrote:

Are we really that cowardly as a society?

Cowardly in what way?
cowardly to let them die or cowardly to stop them dying?

Cowardly in the way that if we want them dead then bring back Capital Punishment.

If as society, we dont beleive in Capital Punishment (which we dont), then we have a duty of care to keep prisoners healthy.

To [figuratively] throw in a noose and hope for the best, is therefore the ultimate act of wimpish-ness.

spen666

Smeggers wrote:

Cowardly in the way that if we want them dead then bring back Capital Punishment.

If as society, we dont beleive in Capital Punishment (which we dont), then we have a duty of care to keep prisoners healthy.

To [figuratively] throw in a noose and hope for the best, is therefore the ultimate act of wimpish-ness.

Its not what we want- its what the prisoner wants. I am certainly not advocating encouraging people to commit suicide. I was thinking about the other end of the scale- ie preventing those who want to commit suicide from so doing.

we have a duty of care to keep prisoners healthy.

A duty of care to whom? To the prisoner who doesn't want to be kept healthy?

I should say, I am neither advocating not opposing such a scheme- just exploring what people think.

redddraggon

spen666 wrote:

You're happy to pay the cost to keep them in a cell rather than letting them kill themselves?

That's the justice system, if it was really wrong it'd be changed. Committing suicide is a way of not doing the time - if you don't want to do the time, don't do the crime.

Assisted suicide is a crime in this country is it not? What if you wrongly convict an innocent person who is particularly prone to severe depression and they commit suicide? New evidence etc could turn up?

I don't think your argument has much chance of being agreed with by 100% rational thought. I'm all for tougher sentences, but not the death sentence, but life should mean life.

spen666

redddraggon wrote:

spen666 wrote:

...

I don't think your argument has much chance of being agreed with by 100% rational thought. I'm all for tougher sentences, but not the death sentence, but life should mean life.

i'm not arguing for or against anything.

i am not proposing we introduce a scheme to assist suicide or that we change anything.

I am merely seeking to hear what people think

ElLawro

NFMC wrote:

I'd allow it. I'd probably have a noose in every cell.

as long as your prepared to cut the body down yourself. Take it from me, it's not a pleasant experience.

giant_man

Fantastic idea! Gets rid of some of the bastards definitely. Why the hell should these people be allowed to have a life if they've taken someone else's?

Plus a good solution to overcrowding in prisons of course.

Ashtrayhead

spen666 wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

NFMC wrote:

I'd allow it. I'd probably have a noose in every cell.

I wouldn't, it's a punishment, they should be made to serve their time, they can then do what they want after they get out.

You're happy to pay the cost to keep them in a cell rather than letting them kill themselves?

What about the situation where someone like Huntley attempts suicide and needs treatment to keep him alive - eg the resucitation attempts after he took his overdose.



What about those who want to commit suicide who are not prisoners. Again in media today is stroy of police officer who sends his dog to drag a suicidal man away from clifftop.

That's one of the duties of a police officer, to preserve life and limb. It would probably have been a bigger story if he'd stood by and done nothing (like the 2 CSO's recently).

Which reminds me:-


A man goes into a library and asks for a book on suicide.

The librarian says; "F**k off, you won't bring it back."