Do you listen to music when cycling

BentMikey

spen666 wrote:

But it is different because you are far more vulnerable on a bike than in a car

In terms of consequences, yes, but not in terms of your duties and responsibilities. Gavmac implied it was irresponsible to ride with music. I don't agree.

spen666

BentMikey wrote:

spen666 wrote:

But it is different because you are far more vulnerable on a bike than in a car

In terms of consequences, yes, but not in terms of your duties and responsibilities. Gavmac implied it was irresponsible to ride with music. I don't agree.

I agree it is irresponsible- simply when you look at the additional risk you face

Gambatte

spen666 wrote:

BentMikey wrote:

spen666 wrote:

But it is different because you are far more vulnerable on a bike than in a car

In terms of consequences, yes, but not in terms of your duties and responsibilities. Gavmac implied it was irresponsible to ride with music. I don't agree.

I agree it is irresponsible- simply when you look at the additional risk you face

You could offset that risk by wearing hi-viz?

BentMikey

Gambatte wrote:

But you see I also have issue with the whole concept of ‘in car entertainment’. We see enough examples of distracted drivers out there as it is. We’ll never get figures, but I wonder how many of those are singing along, listening to the news etc?

Yes, I agree, and I wouldn't be limiting it to just ICE, as there are far more causes than that.

One particular distraction will have far more effect on some people than on others. That's why for the most part it's currently up to us as drivers/riders to judge whether it's enough to affect our safety, and to take action on.

MrGrumpy

I listen to the radio whilst cycling, mostly at night time as the roads are that bit quieter and I don`t like to hear the rustling of anything in bushes etc :shock: when cycling those unlit country roads ! In a busy city I`d think twice i reckon but my commute is mostly quiet untill i hit Edinburgh and then the ipod is muted !

BentMikey

spen666 wrote:

I agree it is irresponsible- simply when you look at the additional risk you face

So let's see you quantify the risks involved and the chances of music increasing your likelihood of having an accident, Spen. Cite some studies on the effects please, car ones would be fine since there's unlikely to be anything on bikes. Or is this just a guesstimate on your part?

LOL @ Gambatte!!!!

Adamskii

I listen to music on the bike when I commute as a motivational aid. Cycling the same route each and every day to work can also get a bit boring, so what’s wrong with listening to a little music?

I don't feel that it impedes my riding ability or makes my less aware of traffic.

Gambatte

Not going to go into further detail ‘cos it’ll sound too ‘preachy’. But theres something I do which makes me aware of how unfocussed, undisciplined and easily distracted the mind is.

I’ll never be able to concentrate 100% of the time on the road. It wouldn’t be human to. But it seems deliberately introducing distractions is counterproductive to a safety conscious approach?

Everyone else is free to their own opinions, I just do what I can to attempt to reduce risk to myself.

TheFoolio888

Gambatte wrote:

Not going to go into further detail ‘cos it’ll sound too ‘preachy’. But theres something I do which makes me aware of how unfocussed, undisciplined and easily distracted the mind is.

I’ll never be able to concentrate 100% of the time on the road. It wouldn’t be human to. But it seems deliberately introducing distractions is counterproductive to a safety conscious approach?

Everyone else is free to their own opinions, I just do what I can to attempt to reduce risk to myself.

I'd have to agree with that...not a being brain scientist or general clever clog I don't know the details but..

To me any added stimulous must take up valuable brain power and concentration...I know for a fact that if I had music on I'd be singing along to it...I do it in the car...and I would do it on a bike...and yes music in the car is a distraction, so on a bike it would be no different...

To me, the only difference is the consequence of a minor lapse in concentration on a bike can be a lot more serious.

Adamskii

Part of the attraction of cycling is that there is some risk involved, its that coupled with the freedom that makes you feel alive.

Keithp88

Every morning and every night I stick the earphones in and leather it everywhere. Occasionally I am aware that there is music playing. Mostly its the dull roar of traffic, which i find soporific, or a rythmic pulsing in my ears that sounds a bit like drum and bass. Turns out thats my pulse .

When I ride my motorbike I put earplugs in that kill most of the sound. There is a firm that makes custom plugs shaped to your ear to kill all sound. Hearing is not an essential, ask a deaf bloke. Anyone drive a Prius? Freaking stealth car.

Gambatte

Adamskii wrote:

Part of the attraction of cycling is that there is some risk involved, its that coupled with the freedom that makes you feel alive.

I commute, MTB, climb, white water kayak. The adrenaline is a buzz, bit I will still always try to minimise risk where appropriate. I’ve seen to many climbers fall from the top of a route, when their last piece of safety is only half way up…..

Most people I’ve seen tip their boat, don’t do it in the wash, they do it at the end of the run, when they’ve stopped concentrating and started reflecting and hit an eddy current.

Also when I climb, I want to climb, when I cycle I want to cycle. I don’t want to live my life to a soundtrack. Doing both, to me, dilutes the experience of both.

dirk_van_gently

Tried riding with earphones and music a while back, it was fine in the off road sections of my journey. On the road I only used one earpiece, but I didn't like riding like this, just didn't feel comfortable, so haven't done so since.

with all the distractions in cars, I sometimes think that driving for some is just an inconvenience to their in car experience.

Anonymous

Not everyone is the same or affected in the same way under the same conditions or influences. You'll never be hit by me or hit me because I didn't know you were there or see you. It'll never happen.
This thread is heading downhill as fast as I did last weekend.
I'm done with it.

Adamskii

Gambatte - All that stuff is great, I also climb and Kayak. In all these instances its about managing the risk that faces you.

When cycling I wear a helmet a Hi Viz jacket and use lights these are the things that I feel will keep me safe and in my opinion listening to music makes no difference.

jedster

I agree that looking is far more important than listening but I did have a situation where my hearing was very valuable.

A moped undertook me as I was approachinga parked car. I shoulder checked over my right shoulder on the approach to the car but this didnt allow me to see inside. It was my hearing that alerted me to the moped moving up and meant that I was able to move wider to avoid squeezing him out.

Now some might say I shouldn't worry about squeezing him out if he's undertaking but I'd rather not assume that he would avoid hitting me.

J

Sea_Green_Incorruptible

As I said on the first thread where this came up, I actually think that for me at least listening to music induces calm and helps me to focus. It also helps to divorce me from the negative emotions of riding in traffic - if I'm calm and focused, I don't get wound up by idiot drivers as much: just treat them like any other obstacle and navigate past instead of getting (pointlessly) angry.

In fact, in the wake of this discussion I decided to ride home without my headphones on last night (dark, raining, busy) and I didn't feel any safer at all. I still had a couple of hairy moments, and I was noticably more emotionally involved (i.e. angry and frustrated) with the various morons trying to kill me than normal. The long and short of it being that I felt much more drained and twitchy by the time i got home - precisely the kinds of feelings that riding my bike normally gets rid of...

Gambatte

End of the day at least we all have the choice. I have my own reasons for not doing. I figure you’re all competent enough to make your own decisions*. We all do what we can or feel comfortable with for our own safety.

I’m more concerned with the 100s of numpties in their tonnes of air conditioned metal singing along to Mika(:vomit:emoticon?) than anything else.


*even if not there’s sod all I can do about it :roll:

Anonymous

Gambatte wrote:

I figure you’re all competent enough to make your own decisions*. We all do what we can or feel comfortable with for our own safety.

That's what I was thinking from the start of this. There aren't any $49.95 bike riders on this forum, right?

Gambatte

Yeah. You we can spend a few posts discussing different viewpoints. No point turning it into some sort of personal mission or spending 10 pages reiterating the same points.

Anonymous

We all do what we can or feel comfortable with for our own safety.

One last point, I don't do things for just my own safety. There are enough riders out there who feel everyone else on the path are just annoyances, walking, driving, sitting, running and riding, and make it so hard for those of us with compassion for others to look as though we have that trait.
Preserving everyone's safety, not just my own, is the reason I take prcautions.
No one needs to suffer because of my percieved arrogance.

BentMikey

Gambatte, you've been great to debate with, as usual. It's really only the sort of unthinking organ donor posts that irritate me, because they so clearly haven't thought much about the issue, unlike you.

Belv

I think we should seperate the criticism of headphones into:
1) a problem of reducing sensory awareness.
2) a distraction.

Number 1 is, in my opinion, the best arguement against wearing them. Whether i should be looking around me more (probably) or not, i do rely on my ears for a degree of information, therefore losing that info does increase my risk.
Number 2 is personal. The motorcyclists on here might have heard of a guy called Keith Code who writes books and runs courses on improving your riding. One of his core theories is that everyone has $10 (he's American) worth of attention to spend. When i am pounding my way along the same routes to work and back every day i am not using my entire $10 all the time. At potential danger spots i do, but there are a couple of long straights that simply do not engage me enough so i end up having conversations with myself, planning what to have for tea, etc. This is a failing, but one that i guess everyone has travelling by any means along the same route twice a day. Listening to music fills in some of this attention, but still does not take me over my $10 worth. When things do require more attention, i will hook the earpieces out of my ears (as i often turn the radio off in the car if i feel it is hindering my concentration).

I have quite enjoyed reading this thread - some good points on both sides - and i agree that no-one should take an opposing view personally: We all know we're the only one who's right!

Gambatte

BentMikey wrote:

Gambatte, you've been great to debate with, as usual. It's really only the sort of unthinking organ donor posts that irritate me, because they so clearly haven't thought much about the issue, unlike you.

Thanks BM, backatcha.

The good thing about debate is that sometimes you do hear something that makes you reassess and change your mind.

I’m actually coming round to your way of thinking as regards Hi-Viz, since a thread where we separated the aspects of fluorescents and reflectives.

3M Diamond grade and a set of decent lights all the way now.

Besides, yellows not my colour… :oops:

Chr!s

I am a new member here, reading this thread made me sign up and get stuck in...

I cycle to work everyday, rain or shine, love it.

I also wear my iPod while I do. I have the volume close to 70% and you can quite easily hear cars approaching over the music with ease.

Now, when I'm riding my motorbike, I wear ear plugs and my helmet, and I can't hear a single thing, barely my engine noise. Let alone cars around me.

However, I have never missed a emergency vehicle approaching, never not realised a car is sneaking around my outside or down the inside.

Why?

I use my eyes, the best form of defence you have.

I am more aware of my surroundings while on the motorbike.

If you start to trust your ears for everything you are going about it the wrong way.

Look and Listen.

MrGrumpy

think you hit the nail on the head with your last comment

memphis32

A comment to make on the difference between the use of ears on bikes or on motorbikes or in cars - motor vehicles are required to have mirrors (mirrors that are actually pointing in the right direction and reflect, unlike those made for pedal bikes). This means you can check (most) places that need checking without taking your peripheral vision off the road ahead. There is also the fact that hese vehicles will be travelling at the same speed or faster than other road users, so things approaching from behind shouldn't be such a significant risk.
On a bike, we are slower than the vehicles that will cause us harm...

Should I therefore be checking behind me more often than I would in a car? And if so, what happens when the child runs out in front of me after his rubber ball, as I'm assessing the row of traffic about to pass me for potential risks?

memphis32

To make that last bit more relevant to the current thread (which I now realise I didn't!), I would make a point that many high risk overtaking traffic is clear from what you hear, ie. the fool who thinks he has time to overtake before turning left across you. Of course you look over your shoulder before you pass the junction, but the following car may not be indicating, or may be hesitating about whether to try overtaking or not...

memphis32

Since I seem to be on a bit of a roll now, will just quote a few bits from another thread on this forum, from 3 different posters:

"Personally, if i am cycling along a road with no obvious danger points then i wouldn't look behind very often, preferring to let my ears alert me to potential risks approaching from behind."

"You can hear most traffic, but I still like to look."

"I've also improved a lot since doing an advanced driving course. They reckon an advanced driver checks his/her mirrors about every 3 seconds on average. I would say this is overkill on a bike, your ears give a much better idea of surrounding traffic."

I know most of us do things differently, but it does seem fairly natural for alot of us to use our ears for cues to start looking around, which of course will give us a better idea of what is going on.

Gambatte

memphis32 wrote:

Since I seem to be on a bit of a roll now, will just quote a few bits from another thread on this forum, from 3 different posters:........

Nice clipping...