Astana more legitimate than most now
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
0
Comments
-
Regardless of our suspicions of Johann's past, he seems to be well aware that the has to bend with the prevailing wind to survive. Good on him.0
-
Interesting quote. Especially the second part
"A zero tolerance is a minimum and we want to go even further," stated Bruyneel. "If we continue to tolerate actions like we have seen in the last few years we will only chase away sponsors from our sport.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Still sore after not securing further sponsorship for DISCO?
Also might chase out any bad left-overs from Astana Mkii. Hope it works out!0 -
Anyone else raise their eyebrow at it being called the Astana "Healthy Choice" Programme?
No, just me?
It seems a bit like Marlboro "Healthy Choice" Cigarettes to me.
Rule No.10 // It never gets easier, you just go faster0 -
Now you mention it, 'Healthy Choice'.... I like it.
It has a 'Riders Welfare' ring to it, rather than the Gripper-style Chase the Cheats.
Afterall should not the focus be on stopping the guys damaging themselves?0 -
SecretSqirrel wrote:Now you mention it, 'Healthy Choice'.... I like it.
It has a 'Riders Welfare' ring to it, rather than the Gripper-style Chase the Cheats.
Afterall should not the focus be on stopping the guys damaging themselves?
I agree with that, but also they need to be aware of the damage being done to themsleves on a professional level. The riders need to realise that it is in their long-term financial interests not to dope, and then we may be in with a shout.I was only joking when I said
by rights you should be bludgeoned in your bed0 -
Good news in my book.Half man, Half bike0
-
My initial reaction (as was probably true of many others on here) to the news that Bruyneel was headed to Astana was that it was an easy option for him. As a sponsor, Astana have less to lose if their name is mired in drugs scandal than that of a purely commercial sponsor. I assumed therefore that the "turn a blind eye" (or even worse, systematic team-sponsored doping) attitude that so obviously existed in the team this year would continue.
I'm glad to say Bruyneel has surprised me with this move and it can only be applauded.
Will 2008 be a year without major drugs scandals, or will all the increased testing see more positives than ever?0 -
Until there is an admissable test for own-blood doping, I suspect even the great Dane is p1ssing in the wind.
Nevertheless, to be applauded (as far as one can applaud a former ONCE rider)___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
it is definitely good news...that an ex ONCE rider is willing to make major changes from the way his former team-ONCE- was run as explained by Alex Zulle in 1998. At least this narrows down the choice doping methods, makes them risky, very risky really given the indirect means of identifying blood manipulation-own or others. Growth hormone is still invisible in dope testing I think? How much further can Astana go? I don't think they cn do much more than they are. Is Kloeden going to stay on? I hope so0
-
Dave_1 wrote:Is Kloeden going to stay on? I hope so
Oh so do I. I think the guy has class, but it would be a shame to see him spent as a domestique for Bert & Levi.0 -
I guess they won't be signing that song that goes "Let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel"....Le Blaireau (1)0
-
SecretSqirrel wrote:Dave_1 wrote:Is Kloeden going to stay on? I hope so
Oh so do I. I think the guy has class, but it would be a shame to see him spent as a domestique for Bert & Levi.
Given he can TT better than either, and climb (when not injured) better than Levi I suspect his presence may be an embarrasement to Johan. As it was when he was obviously better than big Jan, despite the latter's revealeddependence on illicit substances.
Note the word 'revealed' which doesn't apply to Klodi.
Yet.___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
Wouldn't shock any of us, although.......
Klodi could be guilty by association 100 times over judging by the company he has kept in the last few years.
However, for that reason he will have had the Gripper Blood Hounds all over him this year. He hasn't been accused of not filling his 'Whereabout' forms properly, I don't recall him being named as one of the 'Men in Black'. And although there hasn't been a blazing Headline 'KLODI RESULT NEGATIVE!!', this must have been the case over and over again.0 -
SecretSqirrel wrote:Wouldn't shock any of us, although.......
Klodi could be guilty by association 100 times over judging by the company he has kept in the last few years.
However, for that reason he will have had the Gripper Blood Hounds all over him this year. He hasn't been accused of not filling his 'Whereabout' forms properly, I don't recall him being named as one of the 'Men in Black'. And although there hasn't been a blazing Headline 'KLODI RESULT NEGATIVE!!', this must have been the case over and over again.
The 3 up TTT of Klodi, Ullrich and Vino at Sydney 2000 Olympics looks harder and harder to believe now, no? Do you think they were really negative at the dope test-no EPO test at the time and 2 of the 3 have been shown up in 2006-070 -
Can't disagree with you Dave_1
But there are too many questions to be asked.
If there was no efficient EPO dope test 7 years ago at the Olympics then we will never know if only the top 3 were using, or just some of closest competitors, or most of the field, or all of the field ( I won't include none of the field - too much of a stretch of the imagination!!!)
Imagine that if it were the only the medallists that doped then clearly they cheated and are a disgrace.
At the other end of the scale, if the whole field were 'at it', then you could assume that the top three were the best TT specialists on a level playing field, would have been motivated by the fact that they could be beaten by less talented racers who were cheating.
I am trying to come to terms with the past, and hope that the sport is getting into a position to change for the better. I don't believe in stripping titles as with Riis, unless they are caught at the time, otherwise where would we stop?
Shakespeare is not PC by todays standards, but lets not rewrite Othello.0 -
0
-
aurelio wrote:"A leopard can't change it's spots."
"You can't teach an old dog new tricks."
Do you believe the French were all at it in the 90's?
Do you believe they're mostly clean now?
If so, did they not change their spots somewhat?
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
aurelio wrote:"A leopard can't change it's spots."
"You can't teach an old dog new tricks."
Well leopards are leopards, and dogs are dogs, and pro-riders were once little boys who wanted to win good!
Slightly left of field..........
I do recall a DT/T-Mob leopard who claimed that each one of his spots represented a year off is life!0 -
aurelio wrote:"A leopard can't change it's spots."
"You can't teach an old dog new tricks."
Meaningless drivel.0 -
Now that's the sort of insightful, intelligent comment this discussion needs...vermooten wrote:
Meaningless drivel.aurelio wrote:"A leopard can't change it's spots."
"You can't teach an old dog new tricks."
Pray, what do you think will cause Bruyneel to mend his old "800 ml of packed cells" ways? The risk of being caught out by the UCI's test for autologous blood transfusions? Oh hang on, no such test exists does it? I have a feeling that the main 'benefit' of any internally-controlled 'testing' procedure will be the even better 'management' of any legitimate, external tests done by bodies such as the UCI.0 -
Yes but if the results go first to the UCI and WADA, how is your theory going to stand up in that case?Le Blaireau (1)0
-
I think you have to remember than Johan has come out from under Lances shadow. Also he saw the whole discovery franchise evapourate despite unprecidented success with 8tours in 9years!! i.e.it does not matter how successful you are sponsors have no interest if the public view your success with suspicion. He now realises that for the sport in general and him in particular to continue he has to be active in cleaning up the sport.
You might say that it is only words but it is an independent prog and Johan has come a long way from his two fingers to the peleton with Basso. So not a fan of Johan but it is very encouraging to see him moving in the right direction - time will tell how genuine he is.0 -
aurelio wrote:
Aurelio, Vermoo' did get you to articulate your argument!! Instead of spouting proverbs. Which is what we would prefer
....
If you were to give JB advice on the matter, what would you tell him? Or are you dismissing him as a thoroughly bad lot. Astana really do have to get it right this time, and I believe there is little more they can do now accept prove themselves in 2008.0 -
Sorry, but when JB hired Basso, it was clear where his moral centre was.
He'll learn to adapt through prose and press releases, tell people what they like to hear.
Pro cycling needs a clean sweep, not the usual suspects just rearranged in different teams.
I lost interest when Riis returned.0 -
Martin Van Nostrand wrote:Sorry, but when JB hired Basso, it was clear where his moral centre was.
He'll learn to adapt through prose and press releases, tell people what they like to hear.
Pro cycling needs a clean sweep, not the usual suspects just rearranged in different teams.
I lost interest when Riis returned.
The point of your disinterested opinion being?0 -
He lied repeatedly for decades, and cultured climbers who doped.
CSC could have continued with a different DS.0 -
Following the todays news re Vino's ban, we may get a test of JB's mettle when the Sponsors want him signed up again next summer?0
