"Lights!" A confession

Meredydd

I've a confession to make.
I had a rather heated exchange with a motorist last night which I'm feeling rather guilty about. It was a glorious irrational shouting match that went something like this:-

Me, riding last night, my usual array of rear light, sportif gilet with large reflective 'S', EL350 front light and super bright head torch. Cruising to a stop at some traffic lights a car pulls close to me, the window goes down and the woman in it yells at me

Her: "Lights!"
Me: "What!?!" (looking in)
Her: (somewhat taken aback by brightness of front lights) "Get some lights. It's bloody dangerous"
Me: (Turning the rear of the bike towards her) "What's that?"
Her: "It's not good enough. It's bloody dangerous:" (bit confused) "You need lights not a reflector"
Me: "Dangerous for me, or dangerous for you" (what was I thinking?) "It's a light. Can you not see the big reflective S on my back either?"
Her "It's not good enough"
Me: (ride off)
Her: (driving past) "It's not good enough"

Have to say, it shook me up a bit. Really rattled my confidence for the mile or so unlit stretch I had to ride later en route to the friends I was visiting.
My confession - well, being rather rattled and concerned about the last stretch, I did stop to check my rear light was working. And it was, and looked ok, but not the brightest. Still not entirely happy though, I scrounged some batteries form the friends before I left, and fair play with the new batteries the light was far, far brighter than it had been on the way out.
So, I probably owe the woman an apology for shouting back at her.
Thing is, if she'd not just shouted at me in the first place, and had instead wound down her window and told me she couldn't see my rear light, we could have had a perfectly reasonable conversation about it, and I'd probably even have thanked for bringing it to my attention. Why, given I was obviously making an effort to be seen, shout at me?

Anyway lessons I learnt I hope
a) check and recharge light batteries more regularly
b) try not to shout and get defensive just 'cause someone's shouted at me.

Anonymous

The amount of people i see riding on the roads around me in the pitch black with poor or no lights is shocking.

Anonymous

Meredydd wrote:

I've a confession to make.
I had a rather heated exchange with a motorist last night which I'm feeling rather guilty about. It was a glorious irrational shouting match that went something like this:-

Me, riding last night, my usual array of rear light, sportif gilet with large reflective 'S', EL350 front light and super bright head torch. Cruising to a stop at some traffic lights a car pulls close to me, the window goes down and the woman in it yells at me

Her: "Lights!"
Me: "What!?!" (looking in)
Her: (somewhat taken aback by brightness of front lights) "Get some lights. It's bloody dangerous"
Me: (Turning the rear of the bike towards her) "What's that?"
Her: "It's not good enough. It's bloody dangerous:" (bit confused) "You need lights not a reflector"
Me: "Dangerous for me, or dangerous for you" (what was I thinking?)
"It's a light. Can you not see the big reflective S on my back either?"
Her "It's not good enough"
Me: (ride off)
Her: (driving past) "It's not good enough"

Have to say, it shook me up a bit. Really rattled my confidence for the mile or so unlit stretch I had to ride later en route to the friends I was visiting.
My confession - well, being rather rattled and concerned about the last stretch, I did stop to check my rear light was working. And it was, and looked ok, but not the brightest. Still not entirely happy though, I scrounged some batteries form the friends before I left, and fair play with the new batteries the light was far, far brighter than it had been on the way out.
So, I probably owe the woman an apology for shouting back at her.
Thing is, if she'd not just shouted at me in the first place, and had instead wound down her window and told me she couldn't see my rear light, we could have had a perfectly reasonable conversation about it, and I'd probably even have thanked for bringing it to my attention. Why, given I was obviously making an effort to be seen, shout at me?

Anyway lessons I learnt I hope
a) check and recharge light batteries more regularly
b) try not to shout and get defensive just 'cause someone's shouted at me.

You should feel guilty.
She was trying to help you not shout at you.

Meredydd

whitley wrote:

You should feel guilty.
She was trying to help you not shout at you.

Don't worry I do. And I'm well aware she was concerned for my safety.
But she wasn't just trying to help, she was also chastising me - that much was perfectly clear. And she was obviously momentarilly taken aback when she saw the front lights and it became obvious that I wasn't blithely riding around in the dark with a not a care as to whether I was seen or not.
We just both communicated very badly. I'm sorry I shouted back at her, but I do wonder how she'd address a car driver in a similiar situation.
Riding earlier this week I saw a car driving without lights on, the driver having obviously forgotten - I didn't bawl at him, I waived and pointed to him and tried to communicate it to him. If I'd pulled up alongside I'd have tapped on the window and told him, not shouted at him that it was bloody dangerous - as that would hardly be likely to get the desired response.

Anonymous

I think the desired response was that you checked your lights/batteries.
You did, so she was correct,even if the manner in which she spoke to you was seemingly inappropriate at the time
Who knows, she may even have saved you from a nasty accident

squired

When I've seen people with back lights that were obscured or almost flat I've politely pointed it out to them. In a couple of cases it was clear that they didn't care, but the other times they've been genuinely thankful that I brought it to their attention.

If I was on the receiving end I think I would also appreciate a polite word, but wouldn't be happy about getting abuse. Its easy to see that your front light has a problem, but just as people in cars often don't know when one of their tail lights has failed, a cyclist can't be aware of the strength of his rear lights 100% of the time.

Anonymous

whitley wrote:

Who knows, she may even have saved you from a nasty accident

Yeah i agree, she was probably very scared/shocked that she could have ploughed into you too.

Meredydd

M.Cole wrote:

Yeah i agree, she was probably very scared/shocked that she could have ploughed into you too.

Hang on a minute, I don't think there was any chance of that. We were on a street lit road, the traffic wasn't fast moving and I'd ridden a couple of miles up to that point in identical traffic with no-one else having given any indication that I could not be seen adequately - no horns, no-one moving out last minute, nothing. The light was working, and incorporates a reflector, it just wasn't as bright as it should be. And besides the light pretty much the whole of my back was one big reflective 'S'. I don't belive, particularly given how bright my front lights were, that anyone paying proper attention could've failed to spot me.

But look, this confession, is by way of my saying "yes, I was wrong, my rear light should've been brighter". Obviously, I can't say that now to some random stranger who I don't know from adam, so, for what difference it makes, I've owned up here.

Meredydd

So, anyway, now that we've got the circumstances straight, I've plead guilty and resolved to try and do better in future, what penance, humorous or more serious, should I do? I'll consider anything within reason.

passout

None of her business - nosy busy body wanting to have a go at cyclists probably. That said, just ignore it.

Rob Sallnow

The perfect reason...and probably the only reason to buy a Dinotte 3W rear LED!!!

That'll shut her up!!

nwallace

How much of that picture is down to the exposure though?

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si1989/Uksi_1 ... 3.htm#(Tii)i4filamentlamp

The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 covers bicycle lights, specifically mentions Filaments for all vehicles manufactured after 1986 for motor and 1990 for pedal (yet LEDs appear to be legit for rear position lights on cars and aren't HID devices Arc lamps?)
Oh that means I could fit oil burning headlamps to my car :-)

It also somewhere says that despite there being no limit on visible angle, output etc. of a rear lamp provided it isn't flashing if any rear facing light is used with the purpose to dazzle then its illegit.

It also seems to contradict it self, underfilament lamps it says bicycle lights must have BS marked lights then in the lighting requirements it says Approved Mark or BS Mark

No head lamp requirement for pedal cycles just one front position lamp allowed and must be white or selective yellow.

Schedule 20 also says that you must have pedal reflectors on leading and trailing edges. That means most clips are in the same boat as clipless.

fossyant

Helps to have an extra set of lights. My cat eye LEDS do dim a bit as the battery wears out, but it's still bright...just when you replace do you realise how dull they were.

Tom Butcher

Going back to the original post I wouldn't feel guilty at all - you had a rear light, albeit a little dull, and plenty of reflectives. The motorist shouted at you more than you shouted at her - seems to me she's in the wrong. If she wanted to advise you your light was out there are better ways of doing it. You wouldn't expect to shout at a motorist with a defective rear light like that and get a good response.

Meredydd

Rob Sallnow wrote:

The perfect reason...and probably the only reason to buy a Dinotte 3W rear LED!!!

That'll shut her up!!

Actually, it seems the perfect reason to have a set of those electromagnetic induction lights reviewed in the magazine this month. Am seriously thinking about it.

jedster

Actually, it seems the perfect reason to have a set of those electromagnetic induction lights reviewed in the magazine this month. Am seriously thinking about it.

recently put some on my innner London/station bike. Good for that application in that they dont need any maintenance and are securely fixed to the bike so you dont need to remove them when you lock them up (particularly if you have locking wheel skewers).

Wouldn't put them on a bike that I didn't lock up in public though.

J

Meredydd

jedster wrote:

Actually, it seems the perfect reason to have a set of those electromagnetic induction lights reviewed in the magazine this month. Am seriously thinking about it.

recently put some on my innner London/station bike. Good for that application in that they dont need any maintenance and are securely fixed to the bike so you dont need to remove them when you lock them up (particularly if you have locking wheel skewers).

Wouldn't put them on a bike that I didn't lock up in public though.

J

Thanks for the info.
I've only really the one bike that has to serve all purposes, which is why I'm still only thinking about it. But really I don't suppose there's any good reason why I couldn't fit them for the winter and take them off come spring, is there?
Only really want a back light. D'you know if they do them seperately?

Shadowduck

I use two lights at each end, for this very reason! Usually I have my main lights on steady (Cateye on one bike, Topeak on the other, both pretty good) and one of those tiny, single-LED backup lights flashing at either end. I've been glad of it a few times when I've arrived somewhere, gone to turn off my tail light and realised it had died somewhere en route!

carlstone

Cheers for the 'heads up' lads. Just checked my rear lights. My little Wilkinsons led was fine and I thought my Smart superflash was also, until I put new batteries in. I now have a black spot in fornt of my eyes!!!

Moral of story is:

CHECK YOUR BATTERIES REGULARLY. :shock:

Matchstick Man

i've got a half watt Smart light on the rear after seeing a club mate's a few weeks back - it really is the mutt's nutts and is FAR stronger than anything else I own. To the extent that I now just use that on the back and nothing else.
I was out on a ride with a few other club mates at night recently and as I was coming back up the group two of the guys had Smart rear lights - one had the half watt one and the other one had a normal Smart light. The one with the normal Smart light had such dull batteries you couldn't acutally see his light at all because it was dwarfed by the half watt one next to him.
IMO, the lad who had the normal Smart light on was being dangerous because his batteries were so weak. He was wearing a reflective belt but that was useless tbh. I pointed out the problem to him and he had to take it off to check and then realised and conceded that his batteries needed replacing even though they still worked......

Matchstick Man

as for car drivers shouting at you - I've had that before. Remember, you're on their left hand side and they are having to lean across the car as much as they can whilst wearing a seat belt and are trying to make themselves heard over the engine noise. They don't mean to shout and be aggressive, they are trying to grab your attention quickly before they have to go again to keep the traffic flowing.
If the lady had simply spoken at normal volume like you were in an office together you'd never have heard her.
Remember - all car drivers are NOT out to get you, some are looking out for you as well. She'd done well to see you in the first place (probably due to the extra precautions you'd taken with fluo materials) and was simply concerned for your own safety.

Meredydd

Matchstick Man wrote:

as for car drivers shouting at you - I've had that before. Remember, you're on their left hand side and they are having to lean across the car as much as they can whilst wearing a seat belt and are trying to make themselves heard over the engine noise. They don't mean to shout and be aggressive, they are trying to grab your attention quickly before they have to go again to keep the traffic flowing.
If the lady had simply spoken at normal volume like you were in an office together you'd never have heard her.
Remember - all car drivers are NOT out to get you, some are looking out for you as well. .

I've never assumed drivers are out to get me. But in this instance I beg to differ mun. Body language, facial expression, everything made it abundantely clear that she did indeed mean to shout at me. And that she'd taken it upon herself to give me a telling off.
Which was nice.

cougie

I remember the days when all we had were the dodgy eveready lights - very heavy on the batteries and you'd be lucky to have them still working after a couple of hours.
So now I always have two leds on the back - the Smart 0.5W - fantastically bright and v reasonable, and the Cateye one with two rows of LEDs that go round the side.

Chances of both of them being dim at the same time are a lot lower.

Cougar

When you're riding you can see if the front light is OK but not the back light. If the battery runs out on the back light you won't know until you stop and get off. On the other hand knowing about it is not much use unless you carry spare batteries.

I think the lady driver was having a go and not concerned with the OP's safety at all.

andrew_s

carlstone wrote:

Cheers for the 'heads up' lads. Just checked my rear lights. My little Wilkinsons led was fine and I thought my Smart superflash was also, until I put new batteries in. I now have a black spot in fornt of my eyes!!!

Moral of story is:

CHECK YOUR BATTERIES REGULARLY. :shock:

Advice:
Check your batteries when you arrive, just before turning the light off, and replace if necessary.
Most batteries will recover a little when they have been off for a while. If you check when setting off, the good light you see may only last for the first minute or so of your ride.

andrew_s

nwallace wrote:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si1989/Uksi_1 ... 3.htm#(Tii)i4filamentlamp

The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 covers bicycle lights, specifically mentions Filaments for all vehicles manufactured after 1986 for motor and 1990 for pedal (yet LEDs appear to be legit for rear position lights on cars and aren't HID devices Arc lamps?)
Oh that means I could fit oil burning headlamps to my car :-)

That's out of date.
Lighting regulations for cycles were changed just over a year ago.