Chiltern Rail: Bikes + Trains = No can do....

WeirdNeville

I've been vaguely aware for a while that Chiltern Rail had a policy of not allowing non-folding bikes on thier trains during commuter hours. They define this as trins that arrive at london between 0745 and 1000, and leave between 1630 and 1930, so basically any time you might actually want to travel with a bike! They've operated a policy of tolerance over the past few years and I've never been pulled up for having my bike on the train. However, in the past few weeks I've been stopped getting on the trains a couple of times with my bike.

I find this annoying for a number of reasons:
1) I don't see why I should have to purchase a folding bike, which I hate.
2) I also don't see why I should have to buy a second bike to leave one at each end of my journey. I've already had my bike vandalised and parts taken from it whilst locked at a train station, and I fear this would be a regular occurrence.
3) The trains are not crowded, and I have never had a problem with taking my bike on the train morning or evening.
4) Bike + Train is the ideal transport solution for most journeys, and yet rail companies routinely ignore the needs of cyclists and seem to actively discourage them at times.

And as I see It I now have a number or options:
1) Continue regardless, at risk of the wrath of the train guards, and hope it all blows over.
2) Buy a Folder, which I dislike and don't have the money for.
3) Kick up a right fuss - petition the company to relax this policy
4) Take the wheels off my bike and carry it as luggage!

Does anyone else have any ideas? Am I being unreasonable in wishing to carry a normal bike on a commuter train, or has anyone found any cunning ways around such policies?

spen666

Erm perhaps because a bike takes up so much space on busy trains.
Passengers buy tickets, you don't pay for a bike. You are taking up space that other fare paying passengers want to use

The answer being- yes you probably are being unreasonable.

BTW nearly every train operating company operate a similar policy

chrisjsmith

Perhaps they should offer an intermodal ticket?

Random Vince

other train companies usually allow 2 bikes, virgin do anyway.


my preference for an integrated train system is train and longboard (skateboard) it winds guards up as my board is 5ft long but nothing prevents me taking it on as luggage

t4tomo

Yes you are being unreasonable, buy a folder - once you get over the idea they are actually surprisingly good to ride. I have a Brompton which are the kingof the small wheeled folders and its a much swifter ride than my MTB.

if youu don't fancy the small wheels you can gte the 26" bikes that fold in half - they still take up half the doorway but are allowed on all trains. I guess they are no worse that a large suitcase on its way to Heathrow.

You are lucky that your commuter train isn't jam packed most of the time.

craker

I train + cycle commute - it annoys me that the railway network and anyone connected with an integrated transport policy believes that bikes are a nuisance on a train. It's an excuse by train operators to run underlength trains IMO. As it is I wouldn't want to rely on getting _any_ bike on the trains I get (South Wales-> Bristol) as the operator (FGW) has shortened trains & cut the schedule in the year it has had the franchise, in the name of profitablity (it has publicly said this).

The amount of luggage some people bring on the train make the bike ban look highly prejudiced.

I'm full of sympathy for you - anyone (especially cycle forum members) who thinks that taking a bike on a train is in some way selfish seems not accept that not every wants or can afford a folding bike or risk leaving one locked up.

BTW I've ended up with a hack bike locked up at Bristol Temple Meads, outside the Transport Police office on the platform. It suits me and you can't fight the faceless bureaucrats on your own...

Clever Pun

buy a folder...

that or an elaborate bag to store it in as it'd be luggage then.


For people complaining about luggage being bigger than bikes.. grow up. When people travel they need luggage, we've all done it

WyS

turn your non folder into a folder ;]

The Bicycle Torque Coupling System is designed to allow a traditional, diamond style bicycle frame to separate into two pieces without affecting a bicycle's rigidity or integrity. Through use of the BTC System, a professional quality bicycle can be easily put in a yacht, private plane, back of a car, subway, bus, taxi, train, or even on commercial airlines and cruise lines as a piece of regular luggage. However, unlike some travel bicycles that have a compromised ride, a bicycle with Torque Couplings will ride exactly like a bicycle that does not have couplings installed on it.!

http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/ss.php

Problem solved

chrisjsmith

That's pretty expensive for a couple of machined fittings. Even when I worked at the MoD, their high end equipment wasn't that expensive. Also wouldn't the rigidity of the frame be compromised when it's not coupled leading to weld damage by tearing?

t4tomo

mr_si wrote:

I'm full of sympathy for you - anyone (especially cycle forum members) who thinks that taking a bike on a train is in some way selfish seems not accept that not every wants or can afford a folding bike or risk leaving one locked up. ...

There is a world of difference between suburban or intercity trains and a packed commuter train into London.

Yes I agree trains should carry more than 2 bikes and you shouldn't have to book ahead.
Yes I agree commuter trains should have a guards van equivalent so bikes could be carried safely

However the best way to get this is not by taking an unfolded bike onto a packed commuter train in some sort of protest.

And suitcases are far smaller than unfolded bikes. Bikes either block an entire doorwell or protude into the access to the carriage, both of which are unsafe ways to travel.

spen666

Random Vince wrote:

other train companies usually allow 2 bikes, virgin do anyway.


my preference for an integrated train system is train and longboard (skateboard) it winds guards up as my board is 5ft long but nothing prevents me taking it on as luggage

Actually- the national conditions of carriage do specify maximum ;luggage sizes and IIRC that would be outside the limits and so you could be refused permission to travel with it!

whome

t4tomo wrote:

mr_si wrote:

I'm full of sympathy for you - anyone (especially cycle forum members) who thinks that taking a bike on a train is in some way selfish seems not accept that not every wants or can afford a folding bike or risk leaving one locked up. ...

There is a world of difference between suburban or intercity trains and a packed commuter train into London.

He did say -

WeirdNeville wrote:

3) The trains are not crowded, and I have never had a problem with taking my bike on the train morning or evening.

I think the objection was not being allowed onto the train because of time based rules rather than how busy they are.

It is reasonable for the train companies to limit non-folders when it is actually busy (or likely to be further down the line), but the rules should not be so broad as to look foolish. And they should look at doing as much as they can to facilitate cycles at all times (though peak time is obviously a significant issue to resolve).

secretsam

WeirdNeville wrote:

I've been vaguely aware for a while that Chiltern Rail had a policy of not allowing non-folding bikes on thier trains during commuter hours. They define this as trins that arrive at london between 0745 and 1000, and leave between 1630 and 1930, so basically any time you might actually want to travel with a bike! They've operated a policy of tolerance over the past few years and I've never been pulled up for having my bike on the train. However, in the past few weeks I've been stopped getting on the trains a couple of times with my bike.

I find this annoying for a number of reasons:
1) I don't see why I should have to purchase a folding bike, which I hate.
2) I also don't see why I should have to buy a second bike to leave one at each end of my journey. I've already had my bike vandalised and parts taken from it whilst locked at a train station, and I fear this would be a regular occurrence.
3) The trains are not crowded, and I have never had a problem with taking my bike on the train morning or evening.
4) Bike + Train is the ideal transport solution for most journeys, and yet rail companies routinely ignore the needs of cyclists and seem to actively discourage them at times.

Another Chiltern user here (watch the RAGE develop): my answers are thus:
1) with you there, foldies are just plain wrong. Take the most efficient and super machine ever, then make it worse. Durrrhhhh. And they take up a huge amount of room, are dirty, and are ridden by sanctimonious, supercilious people with ugly legs who insist on wearing shorts. Much RAGE here but have just taken a tranquiliser...
2) I did buy bike 2, it lives at Marylebone and is treated like trash by everyone else, often get knocked / whacked, not least 'cos racks are insufficient (which they are dealing with)
3) You can take a bike, just not into Marylebone. And people dojust break the rules, all the time
4) Yup, and Chiltern aren't the worst

tardington

Ouch!

I use the Edinburgh-North Berwick line reasonably often - it's run by First and I get my own bike specific car! It is half seats, has lovely bike rack, with restrainer straps (for the bikes).

8)

t4tomo

SecretSam wrote:

And they take up a huge amount of room, are dirty, and are ridden by sanctimonious, supercilious people with ugly legs who insist on wearing shorts.

I assume you are talking about full size folders? Bromptons take up less space than a small suitcase and all the dirty bit fold into he middle.

We Brompton riders also have beautiful legs.

Have you ever ridden a folder or is your prejudice based on something else?

secretsam

t4tomo wrote:

SecretSam wrote:

And they take up a huge amount of room, are dirty, and are ridden by sanctimonious, supercilious people with ugly legs who insist on wearing shorts.

I assume you are talking about full size folders? Bromptons take up less space than a small suitcase and all the dirty bit fold into he middle.

We Brompton riders also have beautiful legs.

Have you ever ridden a folder or is your prejudice based on something else?

Surely prejudice is by its nature uninformed? :twisted: No, I've never ridden a folder, but then I've never eaten frogspawn, either - doesn't mean I should try it

And cover those legs

There should be a special place on train platforms for foldies to do their thing...down on the uncovered bit with the train spotters...

t4tomo

You've just lost your argumet with that one:

Surely prejudice is by its nature uninformed? No, I've never ridden a folder, but then I've never eaten frogspawn, either - doesn't mean I should try it

No but you're in no position to go around saying it tastes disgusting (or nice) until you have.

Legs are covered in this weather, I actually just wear jeans as both parts of teh cycle are only short. I tend to favour 3/4 length over shorts in summer anyway. I agree with you that sitting on a crowded commutter train in your lycra shorts is a bit naff & sad.

WeirdNeville

Thanks for the responses...

To address a couple of points:
The trains are never "packed commuter trains". I'm well aware of the cattle carriages that many operators runs into london. Chiltern Rail is like the Flying Scotsman by comparison! The trains NEVER have standing passengers and my bike sits in the atrium and so does not deprive anyone of space. That's why I find the no bikes rule draconian and unnessessary. The only possible reason could be "security" or "health and safety"....

Also I was aware of the bike frame couplings. However, my bike is worth less than £360 on it's own, and it's also Reynolds 753 and I'm not sure how well the thin frame would take couplings of that nature.

At the moment I'm leaving my bike at marylebone and trying to beg a lift at this end until I can resurrect my old MTB.

But I tried an objective journey in as a 'ped and there were plently of punters just wheeling their bikes onto the train, without causing any problems.

I'm considering writing a letter to the company, to see what response I get.

spen666

WeirdNeville wrote:

Thanks for the responses...

To address a couple of points:
The trains are never "packed commuter trains". I'm well aware of the cattle carriages that many operators runs into london. Chiltern Rail is like the Flying Scotsman by comparison! The trains NEVER have standing passengers and my bike sits in the atrium and so does not deprive anyone of space. That's why I find the no bikes rule draconian and unnessessary. The only possible reason could be "security" or "health and safety"........

You missed the "data Protection Act" excuse- its as relevant as the other two in most situations - ie none

rjeffroy

ridden by ... people with ugly legs who insist on wearing shorts.

I'm afraid I have to agree. In my Brompton days I had shapeless, ugly, hairy legs. Now that I've upgraded to a proper road bike my legs are shaved, tanned and defined.

Clever Pun

spen666 wrote:

WeirdNeville wrote:

Thanks for the responses...

To address a couple of points:
The trains are never "packed commuter trains". I'm well aware of the cattle carriages that many operators runs into london. Chiltern Rail is like the Flying Scotsman by comparison! The trains NEVER have standing passengers and my bike sits in the atrium and so does not deprive anyone of space. That's why I find the no bikes rule draconian and unnessessary. The only possible reason could be "security" or "health and safety"........

You missed the "data Protection Act" excuse- its as relevant as the other two in most situations - ie none

doesn't it obstruct the doors though?

spen666

Clever Pun wrote:

spen666 wrote:

WeirdNeville wrote:

Thanks for the responses...

To address a couple of points:
The trains are never "packed commuter trains". I'm well aware of the cattle carriages that many operators runs into london. Chiltern Rail is like the Flying Scotsman by comparison! The trains NEVER have standing passengers and my bike sits in the atrium and so does not deprive anyone of space. That's why I find the no bikes rule draconian and unnessessary. The only possible reason could be "security" or "health and safety"........

You missed the "data Protection Act" excuse- its as relevant as the other two in most situations - ie none

doesn't it obstruct the doors though?

Depends where you place the copy of the Data Protection Act! However it is only A4 sized so can probably be stepped over

secretsam

WeirdNeville wrote:

The trains are never "packed commuter trains". I'm well aware of the cattle carriages that many operators runs into london. Chiltern Rail is like the Flying Scotsman by comparison! The trains NEVER have standing passengers and my bike sits in the atrium and so does not deprive anyone of space.

apart from last night, when I stood all the way to Amersham

(Football at Wembley...)