Clipless pedals - knee injury

Mettan

How easy is it to click back into your pedals whilst on the move? - Is it feasible to click out and click back into your pedals once every 5 minutes or so (solo riding) or would that be problematic - I have a chronic knee injury and find a regular relax/stretch/reposition of the leg temporarily relives some pain.

BiggerBoat

Hi Mettan - I too have knee problems (comes with age). Yes, you can clip in and out on the fly. They are designed to do so. Which leads me to ask how are you getting going and stopping without doing this?? My mind is spinning! Practice makes perfect and start with the tension low on the springs. Just push that heel out with confidence.

Mettan

HI BB - at present I only have standard pedals, so am able to move around a bit, and that temporarily helps relieve my knee pain - I'm basically just trying to gauge how feasible it is to regularly click out an click back in whilst on the move - with knee issues is it best to try and get a pedal with some "float" - I was thinking of some basic Shimano 520's but they don't have float apparently - anyone got any recommendations re pedals, float and knee issues?

bornagaincycler

I had an ACL reconstruction & cartilage repair last year. It was done by a top sports surgeon who recommended me to take up cycling, but advised being very careful with choice of pedals. He would rather I stay with standard pedals/toe clips & I am perfectly happy with this. A lot of people critise but when they learn of the knee history usually they all agree.

JWSurrey

I too get mild knee pain.
Regarding pedals with float - I use SPDs over SPD-SLs etc.
I'm currently using PDM-324 on the Audaxer - These are SPD on one side, standard cage on the other, and have the advantage of a nice bit of cage to mount reflectors on - useful for the winter months.
To be honest, given the slippery conditions, I may well put the MKS quills with loose fitted toeclips back on soon.

Crank Bros. pedals which have cleats similar - though different to SPDs have 2 float settings.

Look Quartz pedals are of a design that would suggest they have lots of float, though I cannot find any tech. info. on the amount that you get.
They're similar to the Time ATAC/Axion pedal design which claims a pretty standard +/- 5 degrees of float, but also 5mm "lateral".

Some people have tried Bikefit in Macklin St. London - who may be able to recommend a good pedal with lots of float.
Personally, I tend to spend my life in Condor, who have a good selection of pedals in stock.

dennisn

You may well know this but it bears repeating. Always move your heel away from the bike when unclipping, especially while moving. If you don't you could jam your heel into the spokes and at the very least that hurts.

Dennis Noward

Mettan

Thanks guys -

Bornagain - I suffered a similar injury - ie a moderate ACL tear/sprain a few years ago - I had an Arthroscopy via the NHS - they essentially said it wasn't unstable enough to merit a reconstruction at the present time - however, they did say the door was open to come back any time to see how it's progressing. Sports-wise it's been a nightmare quite frankly and I'm lhoping towards a reconstruction in the coming years. Regards on the bike, I get a stretching sensation as if the two leg bones are stretching apart whilst riding (obviously because of my compromised/lax ACL)- this seems to cause chronic rubing of my femur on the underside of my kneecap, aswell as general progressive bone movement/rubbing as each ride progresses. The pain builds throughout the ride and when finished spreads down the back of my calf for the rest of the day - tends to calm down after 3 days rest.

JW - Thanks for the info on the Tyre levers and Pedals - I'll check out the pedals mentioned - I'll have to try clipless with float just to see where I stand re injury etc - if they don't work out I'll sell them and go back to flat or flat with clips. Thanks again for the detailed info - the Time pedals look quite reasonable.

e999sam

I have osteoarthritis in my left Knee and don’t find any problem clipping back in. I use look pedals with red shoe plates ( allow float ) and have my pedals set at maximum float.
I have found that with this set up I get more movement than when I used toe clips, straps and shoe plates.

JWSurrey

e999sam wrote:

....look pedals with red shoe plates ( allow float ) and have my pedals set at maximum float.
I have found that with this set up I get more movement than when I used toe clips, straps and shoe plates.

Wow - according to Lookcycle.com, the Keo red cleats you mention here, have up to 9 degrees of float - which is more than the 6 degrees offered by the pedals I mention above. They don't mention lateral float though.

Oh, something that came out when the guys in Condor were setting up my bike - The further behind the pedal you sit, the less knee trouble you get, apparently - though you will get less power too - It seems that TT riders prefer to sit on top of the cranks and risk their knees.

Cajun

Try Speedplay pedals; X2 offers 28 degrees of float; Frogs (MTB) offer 20 degrees of float... no adjustments required; easy in, easy out; never an unexpected pull-out (at least not to me in the last 7 years)...
http://www.cptips.com/knee.htm

BiggerBoat

Hi again Mettan - I am using SPD-SL pedals with SPDR-SL cleats with float (the yellow ones). My knees have not been giving me too many problems with this setup. I had to have a few alignment sessions, which paid off as you will need to find the correct and best possible position of the cleat on the shoe. On another note, as a runner I had my legs measured and tested only to find one leg is 4mm shorter than the other causing knee pain, which is normal for most people. My running shoes are fitted to take care of this imbalance along with addressing my pronate issues. I used to run and have days of pain after, but now no problems and I enjoy running again! I am thinking of having my cycle shoes fitted the same way. Anyone have any experience with this?

ps good shoe fitting experts for those with knee problems www.sub-4.co.uk

il_principe

Cajun wrote:

Try Speedplay pedals; X2 offers 28 degrees of float; Frogs (MTB) offer 20 degrees of float... no adjustments required; easy in, easy out; never an unexpected pull-out (at least not to me in the last 7 years)...
http://www.cptips.com/knee.htm

Or try the Speedplay Zeros's; they have 15 degrees of unrestricted float and it is fully adjustable. I swear by mine. I'm a keen skier and very protective of my knees having had the odd twinge in the past, the Zero's let my knees find their own position and are far more comfy than SPD-L's as a result. They are quite expensive but worth every penny, and are very hard wearing. They are also double sided so if you intend to clip in and out frequently this would be an added bonus.

Mettan

Thanks guys - the Speedplays are probably the best option, but for the moment (budget) I might try and see what some 5-9 degree float pedals are like: - I've spotted the following - all reasonable price, reasonable float, reasonable weight - (the budget Shimanos only appear to go to 3 deg float ???) - has anyone used any of these pedals - any thoughts on them?

Look Keo Classics - apparently can get Red cleat with 9 deg float
Look A5.1 - with 0,3,6,9 deg float
Time RXE - with 5 deg float
Time Xen E 2008 - with 5 deg float

I'm hoping that either 5, 6 or 9 deg float should give enough play for my knee - if it's a total disaster they'll be sold and further down the line I'll consider Speedplays.

peanut

Mettan wrote:

HI BB - at present I only have standard pedals, so am able to move around a bit, and that temporarily helps relieve my knee pain - I'm basically just trying to gauge how feasible it is to regularly click out an click back in whilst on the move - with knee issues is it best to try and get a pedal with some "float" - I was thinking of some basic Shimano 520's but they don't have float apparently - anyone got any recommendations re pedals, float and knee issues?

I believe the majority of cyclists do not properly understand how to set up their clip-in pedal/shoe alignment.I suffered for several years before I realised that the shoes I had bought (Shimano ) did not allow the cleats to be moved back sufficiently to allow the centre of the sole of of my foot to position over the centreline of the pedal spindle. This is every bit as essential as it is to get your foot in correct alignment with the crank throw.

Borrow a turbo trainer and block the front wheel up on a brick etc to get the bike level and then gently spin and concentrate on your feet, shoes, lower leg, knees and general comfort. See if you can identify any misaligment. I loosen my cleats off a bit so I can actually reposition them whilst I am clipped in. Try adjusting the saddle height also .

Also make sure that your pedal clip in adjustment is not too tight or the force required to twist in and out will definitly hurt your knees.

meesterbond

I've had dodgy knees for years - something to do with playing 5-a-side football on concrete for 15 years I guess. I started off using SPDs, but after 10+ miles or so my knees would really start hurting..

Switched to Crank Bros Quatros and the problem went away... set them up with max float and they give my foot enough movement on the pedal to prevent any pain...

Mettan

Thanks guys -

Does anyone know if the Look Red cleats are 9 degrees either side or is it 9 degrees split up into 4.5 degrees either side? If I do go for a 9 degree float I'd like it to be a full 9 degrees either side rather than 4.5 either side.

JWSurrey

Mettan wrote:

....(the budget Shimanos only appear to go to 3 deg float ???) - has anyone used any of these pedals - any thoughts on them?.

My Shimano PDA-520 touring pedals, I would not recommend - They're OK, but I have found that although they are on my low mileage "best" bike, I get knee pain - this could be attributable to the fact it's not optimised yet.

My PDM-324s (actually, they may be an earlier version) seem much better, possibly simply because the spring tension goes lower.

Be careful when you crank down the spring tension that you don't wind the tension screws right out of their housing - It takes a lot of cursing to get them back in again!

Sounds to me as if the Look Keos are much better. A shame that I ride in MTB shoes with SPDs. Still, there's always the Christmas list!

Mettan

Thanks JW -

Looking a bit more closely, it looks like the Keo Classics and Keo Easy 2008 are slightly better/newer technology the the A5.1 's - not sure about the tension on the Keo Easy 2008's as they're fixed, but presumably reasonably low - assuming the "new" Red Look Keo cleats go to 9 degrees "either side" they might be a better punt than the TIme ones. I'll keep reading up and slowly wittle it down a bit.

windyphil

Sorry to hear about the bad knees. I had to stop riding for several years due to knee pain (it turned out to be chronic Patellar Tenderness Syndrome - PTS). After a bit of retraining to ride with a high cadence and a lot of time faffing with cleat alignment, I've ended up with FIXED cleats - no float. I actually found that the float made my knees worse as when starting to get tired my knees would 'wobble' on the upstroke with my stronger muscles pulled my knees outwards. This caused untold agony and I had to spend a couple of months riding concentrating on my legs just going up and down - not in and out up and down.........I assume the reason the sports doctors suggested the standard cage to another poster was that there's less movement when you're strapped down? Best of luck with your choice of pedals.

Random Vince

Mettan wrote:

HI BB - at present I only have standard pedals, so am able to move around a bit, and that temporarily helps relieve my knee pain - I'm basically just trying to gauge how feasible it is to regularly click out an click back in whilst on the move - with knee issues is it best to try and get a pedal with some "float" - I was thinking of some basic Shimano 520's but they don't have float apparently - anyone got any recommendations re pedals, float and knee issues?

if your wanting a fair bit of float go with mountain bike spd pedals, thats whats on my road bike at the mo