Decent brakes for old bike (and wheel question)

secretsam

OK, I've had enough of feeble old centre pulls on bike 2

But clearance is an issue: currently around 55mm centre to centre with fusty old 27" wheels, so I guess I'll need about another 5mm when I switch to 700c or whatever they're called today ( :roll: )

Any advice? Need something with bolts not allen keys

Also: cheap wheels - if they come with a cassette, can I use an old, non-index shifter on them?????

AidanR

Shimano do long reach brake calipers, but they only go up to 55mm, which sounds like it won't be enough if you swap wheels. Tektro do a very long reach (55 - 73mm), the R556, but you'd have to get it from the States. There's a review of it here: http://www.bikeman.com/content/view/1027/72/

As for the wheels, post a wanted on the classifieds here or over at www.singletrackworld.com and see what comes up. A non-indexed shifter should cope with pretty much any cassette (please correct this if wong!).

alfablue

The Shimano BR-R650 and BR-R450 have a 57mm reach - still may not be enough (?)

Alternatively, Spa Cycles do Alhonga Deep Drop brakes for £21, they do 57-75mm.

Nigeyy

Just before you go for that new set of brakes, give a thought to changing the existing pads to something like Koolstop salmons, or getting new cables, checking the setup, etc. Also another thought is to try some old v-brake levers to give you extra pull assuming you have flat bars (note of caution here: v brake lever brake pulls can vary quite a lot, so I'd try to find some levers with a shorter pull, the only way you can do this really is to measure the cable pull yourself) coupled with the Koolstops you might be surprized how good your braking might become. I actually used v-brake levers on some old centre pull brakes (i.e. not cantis, and with a single bolt mount) on a singlespeed really successfully and with excellent results.

And why change from 27" if you don't need to? Assuming you have one central bolt hole mount -per road bikes -the extra leverage you now need to use with that smaller 700c wheel will still cause some issues. I also have some long reach Nashbar brand calipers and you do see them flex. And if you go to road calipers, you might have a problem fitting fenders (though I'm guessing the old centre pulls might give you that issue already anyway -can't remember if I ever fitted fenders to that bike and whether or not the centre pull brake could accomodate them).

Another option is to check out Sheldon Brown's website http://sheldonbrown.com/home-drop.html (he works at one of my local shops!) and he shows how he makes an extender down from a brake bridge so you can use the regular non-long reach road caliper brakes -though it's a bit of a Heath Robinson affair.

I don't see any reason why you can't use an old non-indexing shifter on a new rear cassette -the only problem would be if the shifter does not provide enough pull to traverse the cassette (if it provides too much, simply adjust the stop limits on your rear derailleur, which I assume can also traverse the cassette width.)

And.... got to ask, why no allen keys?

secretsam

Nigeyy: thanks, will take each point in turn!!!:

1. New cables fitted a few months back, am using an old version of Koolstop

2. Use drops

3. Old 27" are REALLY old and, frankly, rubbish. May die soon and don't want to replace with another set, so will go to 700s. Existing brakes already long-ish reach, just not long enough to cover 700s. BTW: where do you measure 'drop' or 'reach' on brakes - centre of bolt to centre of rim? I used to know but my memory is fading...

4. Re-gears: thanks

5. Alien keys: 'cos I'm sentimentally attached to my bolted frame and am also useless at DIY, and would no doubt ruin it if I drilled... :roll:

Thanks for advice

Nigeyy

Too bad you don't have flat bars -I had a lot of luck with the v-brake lever fix. Sounds like you've done everything you can (the only other option I can think of is to use the DiaCompe 747s that are road brake levers with v-brake like pull, but then again, they aren't cheap and if you do go to 700c I can't see much of a reason to do this as your centre pulls won't have the reach anyway).

I think brake reach is measured from the centre of the bolt to the centre of the brake pad (see http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_ra-e.html#reach). I understand you wanting to go to 700c (I did have 2 bikes with 27" wheels -one got stolen, the one with the v-brake levers and centre pulls on it -and the other is my beater spare bike) but my other road bike has 700c and I'd go with 700c every day out of choice given the better rims and tyre choice available.

Here is a similar discussion giving some reach lengths for brakes (I know this is in the States but it might give you an idea of the brake brands available):
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index ... 88542.html

You might find this interesting as well just for reach lengths listed:
http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/brake-calipers.html

When you say bolted frame, do you mean the bolt diameter hole isn't large enough for the "standard" recessed nut? You might have some problems finding brake mounts that aren't like the "standard" recessed fit -might be worthwhile to keep that in mind. And thinking about this further, and my apologies if I'm complicating this:

You might still be disappointed with the long reach brakes, as I said, mine aren't anywhere near as good as my short reach Shimano Ultegras, and though I haven't used the Shimano or Tektro brakes, I wonder about the flex with the arm having to be relatively long. It sounds like you are looking to buy a new 700c wheelset with a newer cassette style (as opposed to your older 27" feewheel which I guess is 6-7 speeds?) -but will you be getting a 9 speed or larger cassette? And if so are you also going to go with a new chain which you will need? You might also need different jockey pulleys in the rear derailleur unless you are also buying a new one intended for the cassette -I seem to recall that pulleys need to have 11 teeth for going from a 7-8 speed to a 9+ speed -could be completely and utterly wrong about that though) . Or are you going to lace up your older rear hub to a 700c rim? If you have a 126 mm frame spacing, going to 8/9-speed hubs that use 130 mm road spacing shouldn't be a problem. I think many of the problems here could be offset if you get an 8 speed cassette.

So, honestly really not trying to rain on your parade here, but if you are thinking of buying a new wheelset (even a cheap one), cassette, chain and possibly rear derailleur, or paying a bike shop to relace a hub, you might want to consider buying a new bike instead (with a frame for 700c wheels) as the cost of all these could considerably offset it. You could also consider rewelding your rear brake bridge but that's not cheap either (cost of a respray too?) and still wouldn't necessarily solve your front brake issue. I suppose what I'm saying is that old 27" bike just might be more trouble than it's worth or more expensive than at first glance to convert to 700c if you need to change out a substantial chunk of the drivechain too.

alfablue

Campag Mirage linear-pull (v-brake style) calipers will work with STI's - Condor fit them to their drop-bar Heritage tourer and C+ rated the brakes very highly.

John the Monkey

SecretSam - I have a set of the Alhonga deep drop brakes sold by spa (I bought them for my bike, but the drop is just too long for it). They've been mounted to the bike once, but are otherwise unused.

PM me if you'd be interested in them - I'd want some money for them, but it'd be cheaper than buying new.