Orange Sub Zero

lofty102

I'm thinking about splashing some cash on an Orange sub zero S and I was wondering if anybody had anything good or bad to say about them? Thanks for any info.
http://www.sunsetmtb.co.uk/shop/index.php?product_id=618&category_id=62

fabienno1

Although with orange you pay more for a spec you can find a cheaper competitor you get a well 'ard frame and general setup that will just last and last.

lofty102

I've just been reading more reviews etc and i think that its maybe a little too hardcore for me. I was looking for a long travel hardtail for days at Dalby, Hamsterley, Glentress etc. Any idea's on what would be more suitable? Thanks again for any help

cosworth

imo i would pay out and get the orange..i go to hamsterley often as i live right near it... oranges are superb bikes and very very strong... i would think it would be perfect for hamsterley!

GT Destroyer

Orange Crush.

If Sub-zero is a little bit too hardcore, the nearest Orange to that is the Crush. Should be ideal for Dalby, you should be able to tackle the black bits if you like, plus the DH bits and even do the northshore stuff along with the bike park bit at Dixon's Hollow. The bike is also set for the fire-roads and normal XC stuff as well.

Plus the link says £1200-odd so you could opt to upgrade some bits as the Crush retails for just £999.

the toffinator

a P7 whould be the ultimate dalby etc bike, 140mm of travel steel frame etc.
and i have the 06 subzero with the onepointfive headtube and its awesome.

GT Destroyer

I'm still undecided about the P7 compared to the Crush. The P7 isn't really designed for teh aggressive side of XC, the all mountain stuff. I think the Crush would be more suited to the drops and hits that some of Dalby has to offer, but also agree that the out and out XC stuff the P7 would probably be better suited to.

Thing is they are both the same price, but there is stock of the 2008 P7 at the factory in Halifax, the Crush is delayed.

I think if its out and out XC then the Crush is your bike, if you like to go on black runs and throw the bike off stuff etc then the Crush would be better suited.

Then again I am only going off what I've read, so I suppose you never know until you get on the thing and ride it.

the toffinator

the p7 chould handle plenty of hardcore stuff as it is an 140mm travel bike, but then again the 08 crush looks very nice...

lofty102

thanks for the replies. just looked at the 2008 crush and it looks very nice. Does anyone know how long its been delayed for?

GT Destroyer

I was advised that they are expecting the bikes mid to late January.

Do I get the P7 as its available now and I'm impatient, or should I wait for the Crush? The Crush looks like a better bike.

Aw hell, I'm going to see if I can find a shop with a 07 Crush and a P7 and have a good long look at both bikes. Might get some pics of then too if that helps anyone to decide.

lofty102

Pics would be a great help!! Thanks. Not sure i couild hold out till late january for the 08 Crush tho.

GT Destroyer

Just called local suppliers and they have Crush and P7 in stock, 07 and 08 P7 and just the 07 Crush, they aren't in my size 21" (they have 15 17 19 etc..) I'll get some pics of the bikes together so angles and geometry can be compared.

lofty102

Nice one, it'll be good to see the differences

bob4

07 Crush, they aren't in my size 21" (they have 15 17 19 etc..)

If your planning a 21" crush you'll need to be well above 6 ft. I'm 6ft and have the 17". I would advise you try one first. If your going to be doing techy/aggresive stuff smaller is better where the Crush is concened IMO. I took this advice. As you want to be able to through it about and hang of the back. See previous posts on the subject.

the toffinator

the p7 is lighter and easier on the rear end as its not as stiff as the crush. but the weight isnt that much of a problem as my old subzero is ultra freeride, and is REALLY burly and i made it round dalby red and black without to much problems, even though its heavy.

lofty102

I think i'm swaying towards the P7, it sounds like the right bike for me and it gets top reviews every where so i'm going to arrange to demo on one, if i like it thats what i'll buy!! don't think i can wait around till mid january to have a go of the new crush. the money is burning a hole in my pocket!!!

GT Destroyer

bob4 wrote:

07 Crush, they aren't in my size 21" (they have 15 17 19 etc..)

If your planning a 21" crush you'll need to be well above 6 ft. I'm 6ft and have the 17". I would advise you try one first. If your going to be doing techy/aggresive stuff smaller is better where the Crush is concened IMO. I took this advice. As you want to be able to through it about and hang of the back. See previous posts on the subject.

6 feet and 7 inches bob - 21" is probably too small, but I manage. I wouldn't be planning it if it wasn't needed. How is your Crush for the aggressive XC stuff, the big hits and jumps etc?

I am possibly swaying to the P7 also. I'm impatient, its got long enough travel, it gets great reviews, I can get one in orange, its no more expensive, plus I have sold my GT so will have to wait till the Crush comes out to get that.

leofwen

If you are still waiting for Orange, take at look at this site, they seem to have 2008 Orange bikes in already http://www.kudubikes.co.uk/shop/308/index.htm

Ian L

lofty102

They've got them advertised on their site but haven't got many of them in stock yet, no Crush's until mid January.

GT Destroyer

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/b ... llbike.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/b ... ose-up.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/b ... oprear.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/b ... instay.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/b ... BBArea.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/b ... eadset.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/b ... P7Rear.jpg

GT Destroyer

There are loads of pictures of the bikes I went to look at today.

The first 5 are the Crush, the last 2 are athe P7.

I'm glad I went to day because it totally made up my mind, its the Crush all the way for me.

The P7 is much more of a pure XC bike, its not designed for the big hits, the all mountain, the jumps, drop-offs etc... The frame is thin, the supports aren't that big, and if I'm being totally honest, it looks a bit gay. The frame behind the seat post is curvy and thin, as you can see in the pic.

The Crush is awesome. I sat on it, got them to get it out of the stand, it was only the 19" frame so the 21" I'm getting will be a bit bigger. The downtube (please tell me if I'm wrong with that term) is kind of mounted halfway into the head? You can see it on the pic. There is huge cclearance for big tyres too.
There are big "gusset" supports just behind the seat post and in the bottom bracket area.
Just for info purposes, the full bike has 2 rings up front as its a freeride rig. So if, like me, you are planning on using it for all mountain stuff, you'll need to sort out an extra ring up front for the gears, which is OK to do.

I tested both bikes for weight and couldn't really tell the difference.

I was planning on getting a Rockshox revelation fork for the Crush, but the lad explained that as the bike is built around a 140mm travel fork you should use a 140mm. If not the rear end could sit too high and throw the balance of the bike out. So I might well go back to the original plan of getting a Rockshox Pike fork.

Any other questions - feel free and I'll do my best!
and Yes we do have to wait until mid-late January for the 08 Crush.

bob4

Apologies. Would hate anyone to make mistake i nearly did. Crush is great bike. Doing drops and technial stuff well, given me a bit more confidence(to much i think). Climbs technical stuff alright to. Although I've not had a lot of other bikes experience. But if all your planning is hard/aggresive riding then the crush is good value for money. Looks cool to i think

GT Destroyer

No need for apologies Bob - Don't worry about it.

lofty102

Thanks for the pics GT very helpful. A quick question though, if the P7 was a pure XC bike why have they designed it for a 140mm fork? But I know what your saying about skinny tubing. So have you decided to wait til Jan for the new Crush or are you going to get the 07 model?

GT Destroyer

Yeah I'm waiting till the 08 Crush model.

I'm not sure about the P7 question. It is an XC bike, but I guess with the bigger travel forks it could swallow up some of the big drops and jumps if you wanted it to.

Me and my mate are looking to still do the XC stuff but also have the option of a bit of freeriding, jumping etc....

lofty102

No bike till January!! hope your mates can lend ya one!! I now haven't got a clue about what to go for. I just don't think i can wait till jan for the new crush. Proper dilemma!!

GT Destroyer

Yeah I know, no riding for me till January. I wasn't sure what to do but decided on selling and waiting till then. I figured if I had someone interested in my bike I should sell it as it pays for some of the stuff I'm planning on buying. My riding mate might not agree as we now can't go out, but its cold and wet so the chances of us going out are slim (ish).

lofty102

I'm bikeless to at the min, just sold my 2004 giant carbon fibre nrs on ebay, so I've got that money to spend on a new bike. my other option is to buy a cheap (ish) bike for now i.e Mongoose tyax elite or something like that and start building my ultimate bike, Cove stiffee frame, fox Vanilla 140mm forks etc bit by bit as more money becomes available! decision decisions!!!

GT Destroyer

Stiffee frame is great. A tad expensive for me, its one I've considered but at £380 I'm happy with the Orange. Similar travel, and both bikes would cope with the same punishment.

I think I read somewhere that Evans has a Stiffe frame 07 left over, it was £400 instead of the normal £550.

lofty102

I know its expensive but my thinking was if i do it over a few months gradualy buying different components it would be a decent option for me! don't know if i'm trying to convince you or me here though!!! Looks like I've missed the boat on the stiffee's at evens. bugger!

GT Destroyer

The money is all down to whatever you can manage. The thing is you will never know how the Crush or the Stiffee rides unless you buy them and ride them, by which point its too late! Its a bit of guesswork with a hardtail bike, but the main thing is this. Either bike will be fine, as long as there are good write-ups and reviews of any bike related product, you won't go far wrong buying it.