Night Riding Legalities

SilverSurfer
SilverSurfer Posts: 1,931
edited November 2007 in Commuting chat
I'm about to start riding at night but I need to clear a few things up :

- I have seen that pedal reflectors are legal req's so I'll get that sorted

- Rear reflector req'd - will a mudguard reflector do?

- battery life of lights must be 10hrs - so my SMART lead acid will fail there. Would a backup LED light do for that requirement? Is a Cateye EL300 legally recognised?

- If the rear LEDs have no reflector, are they illegal or would the mudguard reflector comply?

I don't want to give a scumbag driver ANY way to duck out of compensation should the worst happen

Cheers.
«1

Comments

  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    This may help.
  • secretsam
    secretsam Posts: 5,120
    What a total fudge-up of absolute nonsense, DoT excels itself

    I have no idea if I'm compliant, though I assume all Cat-Eyes hit the flashing light target?

    One of my bikes has equipment on it purchased before 1985 (pedals), but the frame is from 1988...is that a pre-'85 bike?

    It's just a hill. Get over it.
  • spen666
    spen666 Posts: 17,709
    ...- battery life of lights must be 10hrs - ...
    Cheers.


    not sure where this comes from. I know of no legal requirement of this nature
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  • dondare
    dondare Posts: 2,113

    - battery life of lights must be 10hrs -

    Where does this come from? It would seem to me to be impossible to comply with.
    This post contains traces of nuts.
  • dondare wrote:

    - battery life of lights must be 10hrs -

    Where does this come from? It would seem to me to be impossible to comply with.

    http://www.leedscyclists.org.uk/legal.htm

    "The British Standard for front lamps includes a requirement that they be capable of running for 10 hours on a set of batteries. This means that most of the powerful rechargeable front lamps fail that part of the standard unless you have a car battery in your pannier."
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    http://www.leedscyclists.org.uk/legal.htm

    "The British Standard for front lamps includes a requirement that they be capable of running for 10 hours on a set of batteries. This means that most of the powerful rechargeable front lamps fail that part of the standard unless you have a car battery in your pannier."
    Is the British Standard the same as the law though?
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    andyp wrote:
    http://www.leedscyclists.org.uk/legal.htm

    "The British Standard for front lamps includes a requirement that they be capable of running for 10 hours on a set of batteries. This means that most of the powerful rechargeable front lamps fail that part of the standard unless you have a car battery in your pannier."
    Is the British Standard the same as the law though?
    Well, you need to have a BS approved light, under the law, so if the above is correct then I guess it is effectively a legal requirement. Can't check the BS as it costs £36! but I see no reason to distrust the leeds cyclist link.
  • I, like many others, cycle with a combination of lights. I have two front Blackburn rechargeable lights, which fail the regs because they are capable of being switched on permanently. I have a front dyno-hub which switches off when I am stationary and is pathetic in comparison to the blackburns, yet I presume is legal. At the rear, I have two flashing red Smart lights. These are capable of being permanently switched on, so fail again. In addition, I have pedalite pedals, which flash as you pedal. I have a helmet mounted flasher too. To cap all that, I have a jacket with embedded LEDs!

    Have a look at this photo
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/84256030@N00/280084806/

    Guess what happened a year ago? Stopped by the police. They didn't like my flashing front lights! Whilst they were belly-aching about my lights, four stealth cyclists (students?) cycled past, completely unlit. Complained to the Traffic division and got an apology. If a car hit me, though, I am sure a clever lawyer could find fault with my arrangement and it'd be hard to fight in view of the silly laws.

    Painfully slow.
  • dondare
    dondare Posts: 2,113
    alfablue wrote:
    This may help.

    "Age brings privileges. To name but two: cycles manufactured before October 1990 can have any kind of white front lamp that is visible from a reasonable distance, and pre-October 1985 cycles don’t need pedal reflectors. "

    That's me alright then.
    This post contains traces of nuts.
  • dondare
    dondare Posts: 2,113

    http://www.leedscyclists.org.uk/legal.htm

    "The British Standard for front lamps includes a requirement that they be capable of running for 10 hours on a set of batteries. This means that most of the powerful rechargeable front lamps fail that part of the standard unless you have a car battery in your pannier."

    I don't think that I've ever had a set of lights, from the old tin-can Ever-Readies that were all you could get 40 years ago, to my current Cateye Singleshot Plus, that would still be giving any kind of a useful light after 10 hours continuous running.
    This post contains traces of nuts.
  • dondare
    dondare Posts: 2,113
    "Reflectors for clipless pedals are either unobtainable or useless which is why so many new bikes are sold without pedals. If you have clipless pedals, reflective ankle bands show you are trying to comply with a stupid law."

    I don't think that it is a stupid law. I think that the manufacturers are stupid not to produce good pedals that comply with the law.
    For instance Eggbeater make one called the "Smarty" which is reasonably priced and has replaceable, coloured plastic inserts which could very easily be reflective; but they aren't. The fact is that the manufacturers make no effort at all to make bikes or bike accessories which are legal.
    This post contains traces of nuts.
  • T800
    T800 Posts: 672
    "Finally, a lot of it is stupid. Tell your MP."

    He's right about that, though it's unlikely to make much difference, given that the pen-pushing, bean-counting civil servants have just spent so much time coming up with the 2005 rubbish.

    And what good would "legal" pedal reflectors be for someone who rides a 'bent?
    So, after a lot of thought, I'd like to reconsider. Please, if it's not too late, make it a cheeseburger.

    Just a pic of my bike.
  • Cunobelin
    Cunobelin Posts: 11,792
    andyp wrote:
    http://www.leedscyclists.org.uk/legal.htm

    "The British Standard for front lamps includes a requirement that they be capable of running for 10 hours on a set of batteries. This means that most of the powerful rechargeable front lamps fail that part of the standard unless you have a car battery in your pannier."
    Is the British Standard the same as the law though?

    The law changed recently with the Road vehicle Lighting Regulations (2005). The CTC describes this as:
    Front Lamp

    One is required, showing a white light, positioned centrally or offside, up to 1500mm from the ground, aligned towards and visible from the front. If capable of emitting a steady light it must be marked as conforming to BS6102/3 or an equivalent EC standard. If capable of emitting only a flashing light, it must emit at least 4 candela.
    Rear Lamp

    One is required, to show a red light, positioned centrally or offside, between 350mm and 1500mm from the ground, at or near the rear, aligned towards and visible from behind. If capable of emitting a steady light it must be marked as conforming to BS3648, or BS6102/3, or an equivalent EC standard. If capable of emitting only a flashing light, it must emit at least 4 candela.

    This implies that to meet the RVLR (2005) and hence legal - the lights need to be BS approved. Note flashing lights became acceptable within this change!



    The answer is "Bobby-dodgers"!
    I have a set of minimum standard BS lights in order to satisfy the law and then "supplement these with front and rear Dinotte LEDs and a Hope HID. They are not "legal" as a primary light, but they are only supplementary and hence do not need to.
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    He that buys flesh buys many bones.
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    But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.</b></i>
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  • rich r
    rich r Posts: 25
    So how do you turn clipless pedals into legal pedals with reflectors. Can't be fussed changing them all the time !
  • rich r wrote:
    So how do you turn clipless pedals into legal pedals with reflectors. Can't be fussed changing them all the time !

    There are a few SPD type pedals which accept reflectors. They are generally the ones with a cage so they can be used with normal shoes on one side and cleats on the other. Not an ideal solution, but it works. You can also get plastic widgets which clip in on one side of a double sided pedal to provide reflectors but I hear that they are slippery in the wet and break easily.

    I bought some cheap SPDs from Lidl which came with BS reflectors on them. Wellgo make some (Wellgo clipless trekking), the Shimano M324 SPDs also take reflectors I think.
  • jedster
    jedster Posts: 1,717
    a lot of cycling shoes have reflectives on the back of the heel - seems like a reasonable compromise to me

    even if you did put a small reflector on, say, SPD pedals I doubt that it would be very visible given how it would be tucked away under the shoe
  • jedster
    jedster Posts: 1,717
    you could also put a band of reflective tape around your cranks
  • Belv
    Belv Posts: 866
    I can't understand the police stopping cyclists with decent lights!

    Regardless of the nuances of the law, the 'spirit' of it is to ensure the cyclists are seen and flashing lights help to ensure that - THAT'S WHY THE POLICE USE THEM! I've used a flashing rear for about 6 years and would be furious if i ever get stopped because a mode i don't use does not have a BS mark.

    :x
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    rich r wrote:
    So how do you turn clipless pedals into legal pedals with reflectors. Can't be fussed changing them all the time !

    Most come able to be fitted with reflectors. Both of my sets of 105 SPD-SL pedals have come with attachable reflectors.

    f_DSC00274800m_b4678e0.jpg
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  • Is there such a thing as a BS approved rear light for bolting to a rack?

    All the ones I can find only have a seatpost bracket
  • Most come able to be fitted with reflectors. Both of my sets of 105 SPD-SL pedals have come with attachable reflectors.
    Interesting... mine didn't!

    Can you get similar ones for the old style Looks?
  • Belv wrote:
    I can't understand the police stopping cyclists with decent lights!

    Regardless of the nuances of the law, the 'spirit' of it is to ensure the cyclists are seen and flashing lights help to ensure that - THAT'S WHY THE POLICE USE THEM! I've used a flashing rear for about 6 years and would be furious if i ever get stopped because a mode i don't use does not have a BS mark.

    :x

    I don't think you would ever ever get stopped for that, the potential issue is if you are up in court after an accident and the opposing lawyers say"well sadly your honour the cyclist was not using appropriate lighting, not BS standard as set out in the law therefore it is not my client's fault he drove into him..." etc
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  • jedster
    jedster Posts: 1,717
    Is there such a thing as a BS approved rear light for bolting to a rack?

    what you need is a B + M DToplight - there are lots of dynamo powered versions but there's one called the DToplight permanent which is battery powered if that's what you are looking for.

    here's a link

    http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/b_m_dtoplights.shtml
  • Gambatte
    Gambatte Posts: 1,453
    I use the Wellgo version of SPDs. They came with clip on reflectors.
    I used 'em for 2 days. Spent too many times picking them up, having them handed back etc. At the end of 2 days I'd got 2 of the 4 left. They went in the bin.

    I'm just considering putting a piece of 3m diamond grade tape on the pedals. Don't know if that'd legally meet the requirement, but I believe the tape is reflective to a level greater than the BS?
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    I got these reflectors with my Shimano SPD's

    spd.jpg

    however they make the two sided pedal into a single sided pedal so I don't use them!
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    Gambatte wrote:
    I'm just considering putting a piece of 3m diamond grade tape on the pedals. Don't know if that'd legally meet the requirement, but I believe the tape is reflective to a level greater than the BS?

    The reflectors on pedals have to be BS approved and marked as such, however I reckon we have to vote with our feet and do what we feel makes us most visible, even if not to the letter of the law.
  • Gambatte
    Gambatte Posts: 1,453
    Old Holdie wrote:
    Is there such a thing as a BS approved rear light for bolting to a rack?

    All the ones I can find only have a seatpost bracket


    would this help?

    http://www.dotbike.com/ProductsP379.aspx

    :?: :?:
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    Unfortunately the Smart rear lights "conform" to BS but are not approved.
  • Gambatte
    Gambatte Posts: 1,453
    alfablue wrote:
    Unfortunately the Smart rear lights "conform" to BS but are not approved.

    Ah well........

    Won't stop me using my smart superflash..
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    Gambatte wrote:
    alfablue wrote:
    Unfortunately the Smart rear lights "conform" to BS but are not approved.

    Ah well........

    Won't stop me using my smart superflash..
    No, I use one too - brilliant light!!!

    I have been searching around for choices of BS approved lights, and there are few, and often bulky, old tech, and pricey (like the Cateye's). I thought I found some cheap ones in Eurolights range (I just want some small cheap ones to be legal, and leave main duties to my Dinotte, Electron Nano and Superflash), but despite making a claim of meeting BS requirements, these too just "conform" rather than being "approved".

    We really need some "smart" manufacturer to give us both quality and BS approval in one unit! I would have no objection in spending big bucks on a really good light that met both requirements. I guess the UK is a small market and not worth the extra expense.