The Chicken admits he told porkie pies

iainf72

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/ ... 7709_x.htm

But at least he's never used drugs.

I hope Rabobank are good at dancing because they're going to need to do some fancy footwork soon.

alanmcn1

Yet more evidence that teams pay lip service to the fight against doping, for the simple reason that they sack the rider if he gets caught and nothing happens to them

iainf72

More

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/Ras ... 54504.html

Why did his haematocrit go up during the Tour?

Jeff Jones

Also

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/arti ... knew-13072

alanmcn1

I would have to say those are fairly stable levels for HC and HG throughout. Means jackShit mind you..........I don't beleive for one second he is clean, what about HGH and the new EPO derivatives. And what is his normal baseline for these values, how do we know these values aren't post-regular doping regime and his norm 30??? Problem with blood passports. It will pck up changes, but if a rider is on a regular regime there won't be any profile changes...............................bloody absurd, and doesnt require my senior lectureship in moleculr biology to figure it out

iainf72

Haematocrit should drop during a 3 week race. Not stay the same or go up.

Seeing his OFF score could be the telling one I guess.

alanmcn1

It's a dodgy one. Alot of docs (prob T-mobile ones) argue that extreme events at altitude can raise it, but I am with you, it should go down in such a hard race.

Like i said, no one can possibly tell what his levels would be if he wasn't administering anything, so prifiles aren't really worth jack IMHO. If i signed up to a passport, if anything i'd make my doping more regular to avoid fluctuations

vermooten

alanmcn1 wrote:

Robert Millar for knighthood

Don't you mean "to be made a Dame"?

Salsiccia

vermooten wrote:

alanmcn1 wrote:

Robert Millar for knighthood

Don't you mean "to be made a Dame"?

Please, let's not go there again.

drenkrom

I can't wait to hear what Rabobank will have to say after their "investigation" (read "time-out to get their story straight"). It's sure they knew where Rasmussen was. He's their leader and it's the month before the Tour. I'd be keeping in touch.

It's rather sad that this stuff now passes for entertainment in cycling, but this should be good.

timoid.

This would explain Menchov's reaction. If he was training with Rasmussen during this time and couldn't say jack about it during the tour, it would be mildly annoying.

Rabobank have always had a bit of a whif about them. A team that emerged as a powerhouse in the 90s with Breukink (of PDM and ONCE fame) leading is never going to be whiter than white.

skavanagh.bikeradar

I'm sure I read somewhere that ASO think they are important for the tour.

iainf72

skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:

I'm sure I read somewhere that ASO think they are important for the tour.

I believe the team said that themselves.

But from the point of "Big Dutch Team" they are important to ASO to sell TV rights etc.

OffTheBackAdam

So, does this mean that "The Chicken" was doing a bit of porking in Italy, whilst telling the missus he was only his bike that he was riding in Mexico?
His Hb & Hct levels are nothing spectacular and for the benefit of the medically ignorant, all the rHepo varaints do the same thing, ie increase Hb/Hct, so their effects are visible, even if they're not currently detectable.
If his normal values are 30 for Hct, he'd never have got anywhere as a junior, he'd be profoundly anaemic.
The real winner of the 2007 TdF has been robbed.

iainf72

OffTheBackAdam wrote:

The real winner of the 2007 TdF has been robbed.

Pffffft.

Seriously. He lied to avoid doping tests (family problems my butt, using your wife as an excuse is so 2002), unoffically showed signs fo blood manipulation etc.

skavanagh.bikeradar

In addition to which he acted and looked like a man who realised he'd made a monumental crock-up of things.

Stuck on a Giant

Beeb is reporting a 'non-negative' test for EPO on the Tour. Hmmmmn

iainf72

Stuck on a Giant wrote:

Beeb is reporting a 'non-negative' test for EPO on the Tour. Hmmmmn

The refers to the "positive" for Dynepo detected in France. The test is not vaildated for use yet so it's still experimental

CarlosFerreiro

With the current results - hemocrit never above 44 and not more than 10% variation, and no failed tests for EPO (yet?) - it would seem that if it is doping, it is doping that is still not going to be easy to act against with existing tests or the riders passport - assuming that other blood data does not have any more suspicious numbers.....

iainf72

Blood profiles contain more information - For example reticulocytes (immature red blood cells) measurements combined with heomoglobin testing would give a strong indication of manipulation.

The values he's published are ultimately meaningless.

CarlosFerreiro

Yes, I was just reading the Pantani book the other night, whch shows the same thing pretty clearly, how tests producing legal headline figures are still actually evidence of doping or masking of doping, but that would still seem to leave things a little ambiguous if things get to the "You're not riding" "Then I'm calling my lawyer" stages.........

skavanagh.bikeradar

You'd think that signing up to 'medical/health stoppages' would then be worded into whatever the agreement is that riders sign when getting issued their licence by the UCI. And if you don't like it you don't get a licence. Of course the ability of the UCI to issue rules for sport might not be valid if Kasechkin gets his way.

RANT WARNING

I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to put an agreement together that did this properly. You can't claim restraint of trade if you are free to ply your trade subject to appropriate medical/health checks and putting appropriate schedules together with the agreement that defines why this is so and how it all works. After all cycling isn't like a lot of other jobs - there are medical concerns for the athletes, cheating gains you big advantages, damage to the credibility of the competitions through cheating harms the image of the UCI, the race organisers, the teams, your fellow professionals, tv/media contracts, the relationship with the fans etc etc, brining the sport and your fellow professionals into disrepute, potential loss of earnings for other riders, the organisers and so on.

If the sport is to save itself Kash cannot win and the riders have to accept more stringent working conditions with regard to anti-doping measures and health checks/stops. The riders association could easily get on side with this if they choose to on the grounds of self interest in safeguarding their own futures.

iainf72

Someone who knows what he's talking about sez

Blood values suspicious according to CSC's Damsgaard
The Danish newspaper B.T. showed the blood profiles which Michael Rasmussen published yesterday at his press conference in Hellerup to doping expert Rasmus Damsgaard. He is the man in charge behind CSC's antidoping programme.

In his opinion, the blood values are suspicious. During the Tour de France, Rasmussen's haemoglobin values rose, which, according to Damsgaard, is unusual: "The haemoglobin values of the seven CSC riders [taking part in the Tour de France] dropped by 12 to 22 percent, which is completely normal. That the opposite happens, that the values rise during a hard race like the Tour de France, indicates that there has been a blood transfusion.

"We conclude that an increase in haemoglobin alone should be sanctionable."

off the back

I dont see Rasmussen as a victim here. He lied about his whereabouts which meant that he could not be tested ny UCI/Wada. Telling me about all the wonderful test results he has produced over the last few years is irrelevent!! We know that athletes are doping (blood doping, hormones, steriods etc) out of competition and using this to train ridicolous amounts and then enter competitions with the benifits in their legs. Remember that the UCI had warned athletes about this behaviour earlier in the year - in spite of all this he decided to decieve the anti doping authorities. He did not lie to his team so why did he only lie to the doping authorities ....?! Also the scale of the lie is (Italy vs. Mexico) is not accidental - this to me is a deliberate effort.

Finally Rabobank have some serious questions to answer here. Did they know at the time that he had lied to the doping authorities or did this only occur in the tour. Regardless if shows a complete disregard to the authorities. You are only guilty if you get caught .... so after all 98, 06 we have moved on nothing!! Rabobank should now be in teh dock with Rasmussen - I have sympathy for neither!!

skavanagh.bikeradar

Here is a question for the panel then based on the point made above about Rabobank being in the dock with Rasmussen - what sanction should befall teams in these situations that makes them think twice about encouraging a blind eye? At the moment they simply get rid of the bad apple and carry on until the next time.

off the back

Easy answer - there are four parties in Rabobank.

Management - If they knew they should be sanctioned as per the rider! 4years from Pro Tour and 2 years from cycling. This should be for all Director Sportifs involved.

Owner -if the owner (Licence holder) knew he should loose his licence and be barred from the sport for life! (look at Sainz coming back .. what a joke!)

Sponsor - the sponsor has a lesser liability. If it can be proven that the sponsor knew then a heavy fine should be imposed and possibly a loss of teh licence

For too long riders alone have bourne the brunt of sanctions when management have been equaliy complicant. In business, politic the CEO, Minister is ultimatley responsible for those under him/her. If it is shown that they were part of the fraud then they must take equal punishment. As they are management they are responsible for clean running of the team, they have clearly failled. Other riders can only be responsible for themselves. With regards to the owner if he is part of it then it must be game over. This is hard on all who are in the team but these people must be removed form teh sport.

Moomaloid

Changing your original statement is always a sure fire acknowledgement that you're a CHEAT!

And thats my final answer... :P