Need a new frame....£500 to spend.

kant314

Hi,
I'm looking for a new frame that will be used for a handful of road races next year and training as well.
I've got about £500 to spend .
I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations?


thanks
Kant

shazzz

http://www.evanscycles.com/product.jsp?style=60078

I haven't looked at frames for a while but this is a great road race frame. You can probably get it cheaper elsewhere.

aracer

http://pedalforce.com/online/product_in ... cts_id=348 - about £400 including postage and taxes.

Pirahna

What size are you? I've got a Kinesis Kic 2 with the Attack fork you can have for £200. It's got a 57.5 cm top tube.

giant_man

+1 for the KiC 2. At £399 you can't go wrong. Or the RC2.

allaction

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BH-L60-Carbon-Roa ... dZViewItem these are really light. I've built a fast bike out of one of these. I called up the guy and got it for £420 including delivery.

kant314

thanks for the replies, guys.
Some really good suggestions.

What do people think of Titanium?
I've been looking at Van Nicholas frames and have come across the Euros for £575 which looks nice but is a tad heavier than carbon or Aluminium at 1350g
http://www.velomax.co.uk/displaydetail. ... uct_id=712

giant_man

For racing? Well I would rather race on one of the Racelight frames than a VN, but if you want reasonably priced ti then that's your boat!

Down the Road

Go for Ali frame at this budget. Great value is Cinelli unica as the price includes post stem and bars £599 all in Fantastic stiff and reliable.

Avoid £500 carbon frames as they are not worthy

primalcarl

Cannondale Caad8 for training/racing. Tour pedigree and a favourite crit bike! Mine's 54cm and need to sell

aracer

Down the Road wrote:

Avoid £500 carbon frames as they are not worthy

How so? And what evidence do you have for that?

Anonymous

Down the Road wrote:

Go for Ali frame at this budget. Great value is Cinelli unica as the price includes post stem and bars £599 all in Fantastic stiff and reliable.

Avoid £500 carbon frames as they are not worthy

Not worthy of what?

speedstersimon

Avoid £500 carbon frames as they are not worthy

I've just received a Pedal Force ZX3 as part of the recent group buy. All-in cost including delivery/taxes etc... came to £340. In the process of building it up at the moment, but it looks like a superb frame and the finish is flawless. Delivery from the US was less than 10 days. Weight is 1123g for my size 55cm. Some of the forumites over at weight weenies have PF fames and they all seem pretty happy with them. The Ibis Silk Carbon frame which Stif.co.uk sell for £999 is rumoured to be the same as the Pedal Force QS2 which can be had for around £350! Definitely worth a closer look IMO, kant314.

andyp

kant314 wrote:

thanks for the replies, guys.
Some really good suggestions.

What do people think of Titanium?
I've been looking at Van Nicholas frames and have come across the Euros for £575 which looks nice but is a tad heavier than carbon or Aluminium at 1350g
http://www.velomax.co.uk/displaydetail. ... uct_id=712

That's a good price for a Ti frame.

It's a great material with similar ride characteristics to steel but much lighter. I've got one (a De Rosa) and have raced on it and would do so again. The major advantage of Ti is it's longevity as it lasts for ages (mine is 8 years old) and stands up to abuse from being manhandled well.

craigwend

Will never race but for training and out & out enjoyment the euros fits the bill,
depends on components for weight,
plus your self of course

aracer

andyp wrote:

The major advantage of Ti is it's longevity as it lasts for ages (mine is 8 years old) and stands up to abuse from being manhandled well.

Not like my 10 year old carbon frame then. :roll:

Anonymous

aracer wrote:

andyp wrote:

The major advantage of Ti is it's longevity as it lasts for ages (mine is 8 years old) and stands up to abuse from being manhandled well.

Not like my 10 year old carbon frame then. :roll:

No probably not.
I suspect andy uses his bikes.I suspect you just look at yours occasionally and wonder if you could improve the design after havimg spent hours referencing books and data. :roll:

aracer

Probably actually gets more "abuse" than most "good" bikes, given it has been used on the trainer several nights a week in the winter every year I've owned it - noting the reactions to using a nice bike on a trainer in http://www.bikeradar.com/road/forums/vi ... t=12549080. I spend plenty of time riding my bike thanks, and have also won plenty of events involving cycling over the years - how about you, or do you just spend your life getting angry and growing ulcers by holding grudges against people on internet forums?

Though you're not actually really interested in that anyway are you old man? You simply want to have a go at me for trying to introduce some scientific knowledge here - it seems actually knowing how things work is a crime round here where you'd rather not have people challenge your religion of steel bikes going soft with age, 1kg lighter bikes making you 1mph faster etc. Presumably you also get upset at people who design bridges and trains and ooh lets see also bicycles (noting that at least one of the "trendy" brands Cervelo uses FEA in their bike design, which is the sort of thing you have to spend hours in books to understand).

Its ironic that it seems you originally got upset with me when I was suggesting the the method I actually use to get tyres off tight rims, and use regularly when changing tyres might be better than the theoretical one you seem to have made up but don't actually use yourself.

kant314

The major advantage of Ti is it's longevity as it lasts for ages (mine is 8 years old) and stands up to abuse from being manhandled well.

That's a good point.
I'm going to be racing, Turbo-ing and commuting on the bike, so it needs to be pretty tough. I do love the look of the Van Nicholas.

However, the ZX3 really does look nice.
I'm just wondering how tough it's gonna be, that's all. But for £400 it's very tempting.

star_rover

The Van Nic doesn't include the price of the fork though, which puts you over your budget of £500.
But who cares about budgets?!
Not us.

Anonymous

aracer wrote:

Probably actually gets more "abuse" than most "good" bikes, given it has been used on the trainer several nights a week in the winter every year I've owned it - noting the reactions to using a nice bike on a trainer in http://www.bikeradar.com/road/forums/vi ... t=12549080. I spend plenty of time riding my bike thanks, and have also won plenty of events involving cycling over the years - how about you, or do you just spend your life getting angry and growing ulcers by holding grudges against people on internet forums?

Though you're not actually really interested in that anyway are you old man? You simply want to have a go at me for trying to introduce some scientific knowledge here - it seems actually knowing how things work is a crime round here where you'd rather not have people challenge your religion of steel bikes going soft with age, 1kg lighter bikes making you 1mph faster etc. Presumably you also get upset at people who design bridges and trains and ooh lets see also bicycles (noting that at least one of the "trendy" brands Cervelo uses FEA in their bike design, which is the sort of thing you have to spend hours in books to understand).

Its ironic that it seems you originally got upset with me when I was suggesting the the method I actually use to get tyres off tight rims, and use regularly when changing tyres might be better than the theoretical one you seem to have made up but don't actually use yourself.

Yep still winning at the ripe old age of 64.
Moved on a bit bikewise since the 531 went soft on me though

System_1

Pirahna wrote:

What size are you? I've got a Kinesis Kic 2 with the Attack fork you can have for £200. It's got a 57.5 cm top tube.

Sorry, £200 :shock: If I hadn't bought one of these myself back in March I'd bite your hand off. KANT314, that's a proper bargain and if it was my money I'd be getting this and spending the other £300 on some tasty wheels.

Down the Road

aracer wrote:

Down the Road wrote:

Avoid £500 carbon frames as they are not worthy

How so? And what evidence do you have for that?

Look into warranties being offered What TYPE of carbon is used what resin to bond it etc.

Whane it comes to Carbon I know a lot more than most and was involved in using it in the Auto industry 15 years ago and know that there is carbon and then there is carbon.

Cheap frames are made from Tennis racquet material not Aerospace and as such are not worthy

kant314

Look into warranties being offered What TYPE of carbon is used what resin to bond it etc.

Whane it comes to Carbon I know a lot more than most and was involved in using it in the Auto industry 15 years ago and know that there is carbon and then there is carbon.

Cheap frames are made from Tennis racquet material not Aerospace and as such are not worthy

At the moment I'm leaning towards a Pedal Force ZX3:
http://pedalforce.com/online/product_in ... ts_id=6524

5 years warrently isn't bad and it won Cycling Plus bike of the year(jan 2006).
I mean, this looks one sexy frame for 400 notes:

aracer

Warranties: basically an insurance policy - the company involved sets aside a certain amount of money to handle claims. Not necessarily anything to do with the quality of a product, simply that the manufacturer takes on some of the risk of failure you otherwise take.

You'll also find that an awful lot of the money you spend on a "worthy" carbon frame goes on marketing - a lot of the expensive frames don't cost any more to make, it's just the companies have more overhead (and a longer supply chain with everybody taking their 20%).

Is Toray T-700 a good type of carbon? http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/news/artic ... 67/v/1/sp/ suggests it's used in the space industry.

Which brings us back to the Pedalforce QS2. T-700 carbon as used by the space industry, reportedly the same frame as a Litespeed Pavia and an Ibis Silk Carbon, and even a 5 year warranty. Exactly what is the problem with that for £400?

Down the Road

Cheap light strong, choose ANY 2

A basic rule of engineering.

Warranty is a function of product not marketing

PS what matrix is used? Is it uni or multidirectional sheets of CF used what process control in place.

That is why ALL the major players Look Time Spesh Trek Scott Colnago expect you to pay ATLEAST a grand for a Carbon frame. Even small players like Isaac demand a £850 entry point.

aracer

Down the Road wrote:

Cheap light strong, choose ANY 2

A basic rule of engineering.

As long as it is the engineering costs you are comparing rather than the marketing ones.

It's marketing and overheads, not production costs that result in the price of other major frames. You seem to have a circular argument there that it can only be a proper brand if it charges a certain amount for a frame, and proper brands charge at least a certain amount for the frame. Small players like Isaac might charge £850 - other small players like Pedalforce only charge £400!

Down the Road wrote:

Warranty is a function of product not marketing.

Which shows just how much you understand about marketing. Do you buy extended warranties on your white goods?

top_bhoy

Pirahna wrote:

What size are you? I've got a Kinesis Kic 2 with the Attack fork you can have for £200. It's got a 57.5 cm top tube.

Is this for the frame, forks and headset built up as a complete bike? Is the frame etc. the same one as mentioned in this thread?

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/forums/vi ... 2#14594084

PhilofCas

aracer wrote:

Down the Road wrote:

Cheap light strong, choose ANY 2

A basic rule of engineering.

As long as it is the engineering costs you are comparing rather than the marketing ones.

It's marketing and overheads, not production costs that result in the price of other major frames. You seem to have a circular argument there that it can only be a proper brand if it charges a certain amount for a frame, and proper brands charge at least a certain amount for the frame. Small players like Isaac might charge £850 - other small players like Pedalforce only charge £400!

Down the Road wrote:

Warranty is a function of product not marketing.

Which shows just how much you understand about marketing. Do you buy extended warranties on your white goods?

must agree, a similar situation exists with my cousin, he set up in business a few year ago (selling spectacles), he has extremely low overheads and can easily undercut the major spectacle suppliers on price. The major brands have huge overheads that they have to recoup in their price to you, take away these overheads and you can sell at a much lower price, exactly the same end product.

kant314

I can verify this.
I've heard that the Pedalforce ZX3 frame is exactly the same one as sold by another American supplier, but re-badged and sold for £1000.

Just done a bit of research and they do seem to be the same as the MAx Lelli frames