Frankie Andreu

DanielFriebe

http://www.bikeradar.com/blogs/article/ ... dreu-13021

So, readers, we know plenty of you are miffed about our recruitment of Frankie Andreu as a bike tester. Does this change your mind? And if not, what would?

Daniel Friebe
Features Editor
Procycling

iainf72

Can't you lose the bike tests? Do people actually like them?

I faithfully read ProCycling but not as a product review source. I like a pretty picture of a Colnago as much as the next guy but I'd much rather you used the pages for a nice history lesson or oddity.

dave_1

iainf72 wrote:

Can't you lose the bike tests? Do people actually like them?

I faithfully read ProCycling but not as a product review source. I like a pretty picture of a Colnago as much as the next guy but I'd much rather you used the pages for a nice history lesson or oddity.

me too, I never ever read the bike reviews as..I don't race..as an elite cyclists bike reviews matter (i.e. your own opinion review of riding a bike), but as a leisure cyclist/racer ...does it matter that much? I'd read pro cycling to get info on the pro scene and not on how a bike handles. Just me, though, am sure others think differently. But in my opinion, top riders won't need to read a bike review to know what's right...they can ride a bike fast and know what works and doesn't

ps. looks like most people don't want bike reviews in the mag

Kléber

It's the cult of celebrity, that issue is not to test the bike but to have a pro test the bike. Many pros know their stuff when it comes to kit, many do not. If Andreu knows what's what, good for him but a real test of a bike involves lab tests and testing individual componentry. Pro Cycling's bike tests are really photo-shoot in pretty locations, accompanied by platitudes like "the frame felt stiff" or "I was really at ease on descents" etc.

Matchstick Man

wow, someone on the USPS/Disco squad takes drugs. Whatever next?
I couldn't care less what the pros do nor could I care less what they think about a certain bike. I mean, Frankie Andreu is nowehere near us as amatuers physically so if he says a frame is too compliant, it's from a perspective of an ex-pro. I doubt I could find the same frame "too compliant" as I'm not as powerful as Andreu, nor am I going to ride the bike as much as he would.
Now then, if you could dedicate that space to some sort of "at home" bike collection instead, or show us what recently retired professionals actually choose to buy and ride, that'd be WAY more interesting.....

GroupOfOne MkII

Same here. Not at all bothered about Andreu doing the bike tests, as by and large I don't read them! Unless it's a particularly different bike or the photos are of nice scenery I tend to flick past, as 99.9% of the bikes tested are completely out of my price range.

To me it seems a bit strange to have them in there, as others have pointed out, it doesn't exactly sit with the content of the rest of the magazine. If it was every month testing out a different teams bike, perhaps combining it with interview with mechanics & riders about how the bike feels, what it is like to ride etc, now that I would read.

iainf72

Matchstick Man wrote:

wow, someone on the USPS/Disco squad takes drugs. Whatever next?

Can I just be pedantic for a second here. He said he did it on his own not as a part of a grand program. His usage of doping is not evidence of anything.

Matchstick Man

iainf72 wrote:

Matchstick Man wrote:

wow, someone on the USPS/Disco squad takes drugs. Whatever next?

Can I just be pedantic for a second here. He said he did it on his own not as a part of a grand program. His usage of doping is not evidence of anything.

Did I say it was?

Good thing every one else connected with the team who caught for drugs in recent years did it while riding for other teams (Hamilton, Landis, Heras) because they quite patently didn't do it while being employees of Tailwind Sports. Nope, it was just Andreu on his own, under no pressure from anyone else.

At all

Ever

iainf72

Matchstick Man wrote:

Nope, it was just Andreu on his own, under no pressure from anyone else.

At all

Ever

It's just you make it sound like he was on a program, which he wasn't. Do I believe there was a program? Of course. But Frankie ain't the smokin' gun.

Why does Discovery have to get into every single thread :shock: People are obsessed!

Anyway, Dan, the answer appears to be sack Frankie because no ones give a flying whatsit about bike reviews.

Matchstick Man

iainf72 wrote:

[Anyway, Dan, the answer appears to be sack Frankie because no ones give a flying whatsit about bike reviews.

nah. keep him, but get him to do a couple of crits on it instead of a 3hr jolly, or get him to go out with some pros and do " a ride with" article where you'd get a bike review/nice countryside/pro shots in one go :idea:

Feel free to send me the invoice for that idea yes yes I know you've done it with the AIS lot in Italy but you get the idea

andyp

The first 'celebrity' bike reviews I remember were done by Allan Peiper (in Cycle Sport) and then Robert MIllar (in ProCycling). These were comprehensive and usually involved them riding a well known route commenting on how the bike stood up to the challenges thrown at it. My memory may deceive me but I recall them being much, much longer than they are today.

Nowadays they are fluff. Chris Boardman's were decent fluff but the Marcel Wust ones are utterly pointless fluff akin to that stuff you get in your belly button. He tested a C50 last year and spent most of the review moaning because whoever had supplied him with the bike had the bare faced audacity to put Campag Chorus on it. The very shame of it!.

I agree with the majority on here - spend the budget on something more interesting. Some retro pieces on races and riders from the 70s and 80s would be my recommendation.

Anonymous

iainf72 wrote:

Matchstick Man wrote:

Nope, it was just Andreu on his own, under no pressure from anyone else.

At all

Ever

It's just you make it sound like he was on a program, which he wasn't. Do I believe there was a program? Of course. But Frankie ain't the smokin' gun.

Why does Discovery have to get into every single thread :shock: People are obsessed!

Anyway, Dan, the answer appears to be sack Frankie because no ones give a flying whatsit about bike reviews.

What a few regular habitual whingers have to say on the matter is hardly indicative of the entire readership,
Keep the reviews and keep Frankie Andreu .

OffTheBackAdam

If one works on the theory, a theory that seems to be increasingly credible, that the vast majority of Pro sports people have taken illicit performance-enhancing substances during their careers, then so what?
I read the bike reviews, I pretty much read the print off the entire magazine for that matter.
I'm not likely to buy one of these lovely, shiney new bikes, having won the Bianchi that you gave away in a TdF competition some years back (You never did print the winners' names!).
So, carry on using him as a tester.

drenkrom

If you're going to be hiring ex-pros to test bikes, odds are there will be a few skeletons in the closet. In that case, it's a much nobler deed to hire the guy who admits his wrongdoings. In that respect, firing Andreu would be sending the wrong message, not the other way round.

As for the reviews themselves, I read them, but am rarely transfixed by them. The bikes reviewed are at the very top of the price range, have no real relation to the rest of the mag, and seriously, who's going to diss a 5000$ bike someone shipped to them to try free of cost? So even when you get the impression Marcel hated the bike, the majority of the review will only look in extra depth at the few good points of the bike. What's the point of a review if you don't tell it like it is? Having done record reviews for many years, I understand the reasons behind it, though.

As stated earlier, gearing bike tests towards team bikes and integrating the mechanics interviews with that would be great. That'll set you up for about two years of reviews, at which point most bikes will have changed again and you can start over. That would be very interesting, especially with the opinions of your reviewers. I'll also put down an advance demand that you snap up Big Mag to test bikes when he retires. That guy knows his machines!

jimmythecuckoo

I quite enjoy reading Marcel's reviews to be honest. They are not super in depth but they are entertaining nonetheless.

Here is a suggestion, how about letting a reader loose on one of these bikes and having them review them for the mag?

It would be good to see the man in streets view of the bling type bikes.

I will happily take a day out of work to do the first one for you Daniel... email or pm me to set it up

Kléber

Most pros bikes are actually quite boring. You have a mass-produced frameset with a bog standard groupset on mass-produced wheels.

Once upon a time a pro would have ridden on the finest machinery around but today you can find all sorts of specialist bike parts, like LEW wheels, Clavicula cranks, AX Lightness parts etc. Pros always want solid and rigid bikes, so some exotica is out of the question but in general, I find that their bikes aren't exciting.

petecossins

The many and varied replies here and in reader feedback surveys underline how much each reader's wishlist for what they would like to see in the mag varies. Most readers seem to want more product tested and we're looking at doing that, but we have to remember that our remit is to cover professional cycling and associated subjects, so looking too far down the price list of bikes isn't an option for us.

As far as using Frankie is concerned, I fully support what Daniel wrote in his blog yesterday. It's easy to see doping as a black and white issue, but it rarely is.

celbianchi

I really enjoy the bike reviews. I race myself and like to get an opinion of someone who has done it at top level. A lot of purchasing is done through recomendation.
I also have no problems with the mag employing someone who fessed up.

Keep the reviews and keep Andreau.

andyp

petecossins wrote:

The many and varied replies here and in reader feedback surveys underline how much each reader's wishlist for what they would like to see in the mag varies. Most readers seem to want more product tested and we're looking at doing that, but we have to remember that our remit is to cover professional cycling and associated subjects, so looking too far down the price list of bikes isn't an option for us.

As far as using Frankie is concerned, I fully support what Daniel wrote in his blog yesterday. It's easy to see doping as a black and white issue, but it rarely is.

Pete,

In contrast to what I've said previously about the bike tests I actually like the new products section in the mag. It's interesting to see what's new in the market and ProCycling is more race focused than Cycling Plus so you feature things I'm more interested in. I'd happily see that section increased.

My issue with the bike tests is that they tend to be content light, i.e. there are lots of photos but actually very little analysis of the bike under test. If you were prepared to increase the amount of space available and fill it with more text on the bike I'd be happier.

FWIW, I agree completely with Daniel's support for Frankie Andreu. Him, and Jonathan Vaughters, are rare in US cycling as they are prepared to admit to what we all know was going on.

iainf72

petecossins wrote:

The many and varied replies here and in reader feedback surveys underline how much each reader's wishlist for what they would like to see in the mag varies. Most readers seem to want more product tested and we're looking at doing that, but we have to remember that our remit is to cover professional cycling and associated subjects, so looking too far down the price list of bikes isn't an option for us.

As long as the focus remains on professional cycling I will continue to buy the mag. I've basically packed in cycling as an activity so products (aside from books) are of no real interest, but I'd guess most of your readership are cyclists so it makes sense.

I'd love it to have a bit more retro coverage though - Flashbacks to the 80's are always welcome. .

petecossins

If it's retro kit you're after don't miss our Jan issue 107 as there will be plenty of it in there. I have to admit I'd like to have more product in the mag and it's useful to get the feedback I've seen here.

On another note, has Jonathan Vaughters fessed up? If so I missed it but if anyone can provide me with a link I'd be keen to see what he said

vermooten

+1 for the "bike tests are pointless" point of view

The testers never give bad reviews, they resort to taking about how smooth the shifters are, etc etc. Waste of time really. I usually skip over them. I like having professionals writing things in the mags like Frank Hoj and Tom "Ketchup Boy" Danielson, but no need to make them do bike tests. Why not just get him to write a column every month?

Better still, why not get him to write something more than just a bike test. "This bike reminds me of the time in '99 Tour when Lance ... blah blah... " That'd be cool.

OTOH bike tests probably encourage advertisers to spend some dosh in those months when their product isn't being tested, so why the hell not.

flattythehurdler

Allow me to finish "when lance shot himself up with a big bag full of refridgerated blood which had arrived in a motorcycle pannier which Floyd Landis has a photo of"

drenkrom

"after all, it was some guy who told me that maybe Floyd had a photo of these motorbikes that surely don't exist.

OK, you can release my balls now, Lance"

sorry, slow Friday.

iainf72

petecossins wrote:

On another note, has Jonathan Vaughters fessed up? If so I missed it but if anyone can provide me with a link I'd be keen to see what he said

If "It's not like I never played with hot sauce" is fessing up, then he did. In the Frankie IM's

Anonymous

flattythehurdler wrote:

Allow me to finish "when lance shot himself up with a big bag full of refridgerated blood which had arrived in a motorcycle pannier which Floyd Landis has a photo of"

Gosh!!!
You must be really rich
Bet his Billberry? Gooseberry? Rasberry? or whatever you call them spying things is goin' frantic.

sward29

I know I'm at odds with almost everyone who's posted on this subject but the bike review is the first thing I look for in Procycling. I do however like the suggestion of getting feedback from the pro mechanics or doing 'at home with' rides with current or ex pros.

With regard to the actual testers, I have to agree that the quality varies greatly. Marcel Wust may be a nice bloke and a good guy to have a pint with but he seems to base his judgements on spurious things like handlebar shape and the colour of the bar tape. Boardman and now Andreu were/are much better and offer much more relevant and useful info for those of us who actually have a choice in what we ride, and most importantly, have to pay for it ourselves.

I also agree with Daniel Friebe. Frankie fessed up and it has cost him dearly. I'd much rather read a review from him, someone who has risked a lot by testifying in court about alleged doping practices and is now vehemently anti doping, than someone who buried their head in the sand and pretended there wasn't a problem or wasn't guilty of doping.

nick hanson

The first thing i look for is the classic ride section,& I tend to file these away for holidays etc.Why don't you get Frankie to do the classic rides on a different bike each time,then you kill two birds with one stone,so to speak.
I dont think it's too inspiring having him riding past some derelict buildings in his home town.

Don't have a big problem with him admitting to having taken drugs,because,as you say,the vast majority (& I'm not saying it's right) of his era seem to have had some artificial help.
Also,I can't see him naming names amongst other TOP name riders he rode alongside/against,as I'm sure a lawsuit could well follow.
Keep up the inspiring classic climbs/rides if you will.

Noodley

Bike review? There's a bike review in ProCycling?

If it cannae be fitted with mudguards and allow me a comfortable ride over 200km I ain't interested. Triple chainset helps. A review of Carradice and Brooks - I would read that! :roll:

Maybe get Frankie to do it?

mm1

Hey Dan, not one decent photo of the bike in any of the reviews, ever! Take a look in BiciSport if you want to know how to do it!

Kléber

In this month's Vélo magazine they have a current pro test ride an old bike, Jacky Durand's old Maxisports alumnium frame from the Castorama team. This is an interesting article, it's about how the technology has changed, the bikes have become lighter and the rider's reaction to it. A great idea.