recommend a bike for leisure sportif's

redmenace1

Hi all

Time to ask my cycling breathern a tricky question. If they had money to spend on a new bike for Sportif's, club-runs but not racing, which of the following would they go for:

1. Van Nicholas Chinook, which as all you learned ppl know is titanium.
2. Specilaized Roubaix, which of course is carbon.

Let's assume that finishing kit, groupsets etc are the same as are wheels. Assume that overall spend is similar.

So its really frame & forks versus F & F.

Now i would be greatful if the well aired arguments for Ti versus Carb' are avoided.This isn't about which material is better looking, longer lasting etc etc

This is about what bike gives you the best bang for your buck. The main criteria for me are:
1. Longevity - I want something that will last, although I am easy enough on bikes. I do a bit of travelling so allow for Airport handlers although I always use a bike box
2. Comfort - I want my aching limbs to be less achy. Don't go near arguments about set-up & posture please
3. lightness, ok I know carbon is probably lighter but I mean what is the significance in this scenario..

So there u have it. I have hidden my bias as much as I can but really appreciate the experience of other riders, especially the small minority with relevant experience of riding both the above.
Not looking for much but you know I'll appreciate it.
thanking ye all in advance :?:

Mad Mick

andyp

I own both carbon and titanium framed bikes and both are comfortable enough to ride all day long. However, I think the titanium frame just edges it on comfort.

In terms of longevity and robustness, i.e. being man handled, then I think titanium wins hands down. Mine is 8 years old and still looks as good as new. It's also been on a lot of trips abroad and has emerged unscathed every time. The same can't be said for my carbon framed bike(s) which have been either chipped or had the rear hanger slightly bent in transit.

greg roche

Hi Mick. I run Sunday Bicycles, so i'd better declare a ti bias. But i'll try to give you some non bias distinctions based on your criteria:

Longevity. All things being equal, they should both last forever. I'm not aware of any known significant material fatigue on carbon and ti is well documented to last as a material. If a ti frame failed, it would almost always be at a weld or stress point that hasn't been designed properly. There will always be the odd one, but Van Nicholas hasn't, as far as i'm aware, got a bad reputation at all for failures. They're meant to be pretty good, in fact. (Incidentally, Sunday has had not failures at all in year one of production - go on, i'm allowed one cheap plug!). If a carbon frame failed, it's likely to be because the structure has been compromised - a chip or crack caused by an impact seem to be the usual suspects. So, both materials are reliable but there are potential drawbacks to both too.

Comfort. Both carbon and ti have a good reputation for comfort. Carbon can be very uncomfortable when made to be undually stiff - the Ridley frames, for example, are meant to be fantastic race bikes but i heard that even the Lotto Pro's requested that their bikes be de-tuned a little! I'd say the difference is in the feel of the bike rather than a comfort differential. Carbon is comfortable because it numbs the rider from the road - i think (bias kicking in) it can feel a bit 'dead'. Ti feels livelier - you get real road feelback and 'snap' - ti bikes tend not to be as stiff in the bottom braket area, so the bike feels like its responding to you all the time.

Lightness. You can make a lighter frameset in carbon. That said, i don't know whether the Roubaix is one of the lighter carbon frames or its just that people think it must be because they've heard other carbon frame weights and assume all carbon is super light. So you'd need to do your research to see what the difference is between the two frames you've short listed. You might be surprized at how close they are... we recently had a top of the range Condor Leggero carbon frameset in because the owner was swapping his bits onto one of our Silk Road frames. Naturally i took the opportunity to weigh the bare frame (i'm a bit tedious like that) and was surprised that it weighed only 7gms less than the equivalent Silk Road Ti frame. And 7gms wasn't going to make any difference whatsoever. In fact weight is overstated as an influence in terms of performance. It might make a difference to how you feel on the bike, but in performance terms even 200gms with an average weight bike and a 75kg rider only makes about 1 watt in power difference.... we saw a feature on Cervelo TV (the review on the SLC - SL) on the net making this claim so Iain (our designer) did the sums - they're right. Althoughwe think they're less right about some of their aerodynamic claims. That's a different conversation, though..

Hope that's insightful?!

Greg

www.sundaybicycles.co.uk

redmenace1

Many thanks Andy & Greg for your respective replies. I have taken what you have both said on board.

If anyone else has a strong opinion please let me know - especially someone from a Pro-carbon viewpoint.

aracer

That really is a remarkably even handed summary from Greg - it's good to have really honest bike makers like you on here.

giant_man

The Monday's Child frame looking really good Greg!! Nice one, just have to bring out an audax frame now!!

greg roche

The Audax frame, 'September' will be with us in about 2 week.... On the same boat as the first batch of Monday's Childs... 2008 is looking exciting!

Cheers

Greg

giant_man

Oh excellent news Greg!! Nice one, are you going to update your web site btw? lol

Matchstick Man

i've had a Ti COlnago in the past and am now on an Alan carbon bike (alu lugs) and tbh the Ti Colnago was better in terms of fit for me and handled better but I suspect that had more to do with the angles and dimensions than the material. In your situation I'd go carbon tbh.

greg roche

Website... yes i know. Really i do... It'll be completely overhaulled by new year with all the new models, pictures, a blog, a tech blog by Iain my bro who is our designer and about to become a Dr in design engineering (it was funny going round the cycle show the other week with him just 'tutting' at all the sales speel on new technology) and a few other bits. Just heard that the team we sponsor (and i still ride for ) (KFS / Sunday Bicycles) has made a UCI application for continental class license for next year so i guess we'll have to do something about that too.

Anyway, i'm jumping someone elses thread. Best we get back on topic!

Greg

Anonymous

aracer wrote:

That really is a remarkably even handed summary from Greg - it's good to have really honest bike makers like you on here.

Nuggs

I have just looked at the Silk Road. I am in love.

gkerr4

I have to admit the silk road is a nice frame - it's currently top of the list for my prospective summer08 best bike build project..