Clash of Cultures??

flattythehurdler

LangerDan wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

LangerDan wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

Godefroot and Bruyneel are Flemish and so probably protestant.

Lefevre is probably Godless.

The majority religion in Flanders is RC. However the religion of Ned Flanders is protestantism, so its easy to see where you'd get confused.

Lefevre probably worships himself.

The village comedian speaks. I look forward to more of your rapier wit in other threads.

Ye feckers from the West were always very sensitive!

Ye feckers from the pale are all proddy wannabes

Kléber

There's no need to be dogmatic and polarising about this, but there is a range of literature which suggests there is a divide between values, that religous and cultural systems rooted in protestantism and catholicism have differences.

It's not a black and white thing, much more subtle. And there are other factors at play, you can divide a line across Europe where they use butter to the north and olive oil to the south and the attitudes are different too...

ContrelaMontre

LangerDan wrote:

aurelio wrote:

---

"Socialism can arrive only by bicycle."
Chilean Politician José Antonio Viera Gallo. From Ivan Illich’s Energy and Equity (1974)

Your are Matt Rendell and I claim my £5!

I notice this allegation has not been denied!

But could he be Matt Seaton? Another lefty-cyclo-journalist! Although I imagine the former has a slightly greater knowledge of pro-cycling history.

I wonder what the truth is?

RichN95.

Noodley wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

There are no Jedi Knights. Kinda clears them.

That's only because The Force isn't banned yet. And the UCI and WADA don't seem to want to address the issue because of Jedi Mind Tricks.

andrewgturnbull

ContrelaMontre wrote:

LangerDan wrote:

aurelio wrote:

---

"Socialism can arrive only by bicycle."
Chilean Politician José Antonio Viera Gallo. From Ivan Illich’s Energy and Equity (1974)

Your are Matt Rendell and I claim my £5!

I notice this allegation has not been denied!

But could he be Matt Seaton? Another lefty-cyclo-journalist! Although I imagine the former has a slightly greater knowledge of pro-cycling history.

I wonder what the truth is?

Hi there.

He's clearly a Clarion member.

Up the league!

Cheers, Andy

Matchstick Man

ContrelaMontre wrote:

LangerDan wrote:

aurelio wrote:

---

"Socialism can arrive only by bicycle."
Chilean Politician José Antonio Viera Gallo. From Ivan Illich’s Energy and Equity (1974)

Your are Matt Rendell and I claim my £5!

I notice this allegation has not been denied!

But could he be Matt Seaton? Another lefty-cyclo-journalist! Although I imagine the former has a slightly greater knowledge of pro-cycling history.

I wonder what the truth is?

aurelio is Howard Peel off the Velonodders website

aurelio_-_banned

Matchstick Man wrote:

aurelio is Howard Peel off the Velonodders website

I thought that it was well-known that I am David Walsh in disguise.

Langenberg

Just thought I'd mention that Germany is actually about 50% catholic (south-west) and 50% protestant (north-east).

Not sure which bit has condemned drug cheats.

davesvord

I have just returned from a cycling holiday in Mallorca and while on the aircraft going over I read an article about buying property on the island. The article was written by a solicitor who was warning of the dangers of buying aboard. The gist of the article was to beware of buying due to attitudes in the med countries. While in the northern European countries it would be frowned upon to cheat someone while buying a property by stating things that are untrue, in the med countries they see nothing wrong with it. The article went on to describe some case studies, one where a UK buyer bought a property only later to discover that the land the property was on was not theirs and its value was only 25% of the price they had paid for it! It appears that the English translation of the deeds was a bit vague and buyer said the vender’s seem such nice people. I also remember reading an article about diving in football, in northern Europe it is frowned upon whereas in Italy they will praise the player diving and conning the opposition player and the ref. The whole doping thing may be down to the attitudes of the various countries some of whom see nothing wrong with cheating.

aurelio_-_banned

davesvord wrote:

The whole doping thing may be down to the attitudes of the various countries some of whom see nothing wrong with cheating.

So how come that some of the biggest 'alleged' dopers in the 'sport'- such as US Postal/ Discovery come from countries where doping is so widely condemned as 'cheating'? How about the actions of people like Tom Simpson, or David Millar, or Bjarne Riis etc. etc. who don't come from 'Mediterranean' countries?

jerry3571

I think that some of the big dopes you said about were individuals submerged in the world of Cycling. A UK rider who wants to go abroad, ends up heading back quite soon or knows that he'll end up being in and around drugs. We all know this; if you go to Europe as a neo pro then you've gone in with your eyes open; you will encounter drugs.
Riis, Miller and the Yanks (ex postal chaps) were all odd balls in thier own country. Cyclists in the UK and US weren't viewed as heros but as eccentrics or geeks and some I expect were; don't mention Robert Milar or the Flying Scotsman.
I am talking about where the old attitudes come from and what or who's changing it now.

NB-I think the Dutch were shaped quite a bit by the Calvanist Church. They absorbed the Catholic and Protestant Churches to become a more open minded and eccepting religion. I think the Dutch seem to have some of these general characteristics.

There are now so many influences in Cycling that there is no defining what direction it is heading in but to deny the effects of Culture, Nationality and Religion on us and the riders is denying the facts.

aurelio_-_banned

jerry3571 wrote:

I think that some of the big dopes you said about were individuals submerged in the world of Cycling..

So you are claiming that they only doped because pro cycling has a long-standing culture of doping (which dates back to a time when the use of stimulants and so on was not prohibited and certainly wasn't considered to be 'cheating' by anyone due to the demands of the sport) and that they got sucked into this culture in order to survive/ succeed? Seems to me that exactly the same could be said of any rider entering the pro ranks, no matter what country they come from…

jerry3571

I'm not claiming any greater knowledge, I just think it's an interesting subject. I think country to country things are different and it's not only religion. In totalitarian states; like the Japanese in World War 2 and the Muslims in the West Bank, they think or thought it was an honour to die for thier country or leader; they're not nuts; it's the social norm.
Back to Cycling though; the drugs tests in the past were all about keeping the riders from going too crazy and getting sick from abuse after Tommy Simpson's death ;ie- Freddy Meartens is a good case. It might be that when EPO came about and deaths started to regularly occur then the drugs authorities had to rachet it up to avoid any further fatalities.
I like to know what is the end game with drugs testing. Without proper tests for HGH, blood doping what can we do? Is it to keep the riders from causing themselves harm or is it to keep them "playing fair" which it has never previously been about. How do you convince riders to be nice and not be naughty with the ineffective tests we now have?
Cheers Jerry