How realistic?

Brian1

I'm aiming to climb Ventoux next summer but there are no hills near me more than 1 mile long so I was thinking about buying a Tacx i-magic and the real life video of the Ventoux to help with the traiing.Before I shell out the readies, is this going to be worth it and how realistic will it be in terms of effort compared to the real climb.

crackle

I have no idea on that but if I put my turbo on max resistance and choose my highest gears I figure I can simulate somewhere between an 8-10% hill, at least the cadence , HR and speed are telling me the same info as if I'm going up a 10% hill !!

Fab Foodie

I thought I was pretty good up hills. This summer I went to do Mt Ventoux. It's chuffin steep, worst than you might imagine. I climbed some pretty steep hills the week before on the edge of the Pyranese as a warm-up. In the end the 100F midday heat and no breeze did me in by about half way.

However, the Mrs drove me to the summit where I descended the 22 kms in just under 23 mins, averaging 40mph and topping out regularly on the straights a 49mph.

What a blast!

The Turbo work will certainly help, but nothing prepared me for such an unrelenting climb in such heat. I'm going back though...will be an early morning or evening attempt for certain. The ride down is sooooo worth it!

dennisn

Here in Toledo, Ohio it's pretty much the flattest part of the good old USA.
We have convinced ourselves that riding into a good hard headwind
in a fairly big gear is a good substitute for climbing. Does it help???
Well, it can't hurt. Good luck.

Dennis Noward

BeaconRuth

Brian1 wrote:

I'm aiming to climb Ventoux next summer but there are no hills near me more than 1 mile long so I was thinking about buying a Tacx i-magic and the real life video of the Ventoux to help with the traiing.

It's not really necessary to train on hills in order to gain the fitness to do a climb like the Ventoux. What will make the difference between you getting to the top or not is your sustainable power output, and you can develop this on flat roads or on a basic turbo. The priority IMO is to train at a brisk pace that helps your muscles and cardiovascular system adapt to the demands of putting out sufficient power for however long it takes. At no time have I ever attempted to train on hills before riding in the Alps or Pyrenees - it just doesn't seem necessary to me unless you're aiming to become an elite hill-climbing specialist.

Ruth

Brian1

Thanks Ruth(and all) looks like crackle is right-Turbo to maximum resistance , select a big gear and pedal til it hurts!

pedylan

BeaconRuth wrote:

Brian1 wrote:

I'm aiming to climb Ventoux next summer but there are no hills near me more than 1 mile long so I was thinking about buying a Tacx i-magic and the real life video of the Ventoux to help with the traiing.

It's not really necessary to train on hills in order to gain the fitness to do a climb like the Ventoux. What will make the difference between you getting to the top or not is your sustainable power output, and you can develop this on flat roads or on a basic turbo. The priority IMO is to train at a brisk pace that helps your muscles and cardiovascular system adapt to the demands of putting out sufficient power for however long it takes. At no time have I ever attempted to train on hills before riding in the Alps or Pyrenees - it just doesn't seem necessary to me unless you're aiming to become an elite hill-climbing specialist.

Ruth

Interesting point Ruth.

I rode the Etape Legende this year and got swept up at the 150km stage on the penultimate climb. I put my failure down to two factors.

1. A 39 x 26 bottom gear (just dumb, I nearly wore the damn thing out)
2. More importantly, no experience of real climbs (Etape Caledonia was not, as I naively thought, any kind of useful prep).

So living in the Vale of York, my intention was to travel further afield and do some real hills.

But you think not necessary - what regime would you substitute?

Smokin Joe

Also remember that the strategy in how you tackle a hill plays a big part. Start in a lower gear than the one you would normally use for that type of gradient and ride well within your comfort zone for the first few miles to let your legs and your lungs attune to the effort involved. Try and have one cog a few teeth lower than you think you will need, it will give you a psycological boost to know you have a safety net should you start to suffer.

If you are riding in company don't try and stay with faster climbers, ride at your own pace and you may well find you catch them anyway as they feel the effects on the higher slopes.

ut_och_cykla

I'll let Ruth come up with a possible regime but would add that having the gears clearly makes the difference between getting up the blinking hill and not!

I did Alpe Dhuez this summer - chubby 45+ girly that I am I had a 30 32 MTB combo on my Trek road bike and was very glad of it.(Up in 1, 53)

I road the Ventoux on a MTB/touring set up 5 years ago so I knew what I needed.

Smokin Joe is spot on according to me - steady, controlled, measured pace that you can sustain for a LONG time(1-2 hours). I also practised changing up and standing up at regular intervals to rest backside and legs a bit - which I prepared for with shorter very slow grinds on the turbo trainer - down to 50 rpm cadence. On Ventoux I was unprepared for the distance and had to stop several times but the ALpe was ascended without even a pause.

bigdawg

back to the original question, the tacx and the real life video are really good, but you must have a computer with enough memory, graphics speed etc...

jimmythecuckoo

Brian1 wrote:

Thanks Ruth(and all) looks like crackle is right-Turbo to maximum resistance , select a big gear and pedal til it hurts!

That wont take me long :oops:

bahzob

Agree with Ruth. In my experience best training for contintental climbs is 25mile TT. Combination of sustained power output with need to pace sensibly to get to the end is pretty much what climbing Ventoux etc is all about. Only corollary is that you need to get the gears right so that a comfortable steady cadence can be maintained (and this is where a turbo can help as its a bit late to find out you need some more cogs half way up the real thing)

Where above can break down is on climbs with wildy varying and/or very steep (20%+) gradients or if you want to get to the top as fast as possible (rather than just get there). Then you will need to practice climbing specifics but since this will involve getting out of the saddle and bike balance a turbo is not so helpful.

LangerDan

bigdawg wrote:

back to the original question, the tacx and the real life video are really good, but you must have a computer with enough memory, graphics speed etc...

There is a way around this. I have seen a non-Tacx DVD of the Ventoux that you can use with a conventional turbo.

http://www.tfn.uk.com/acatalog/copy_of_ ... Tubes.html

It won't do all the automatic adjustment of resistance that the Tacx will, but you might as well have something to do for the duration!

jimmythecuckoo

I have the Rick Kiddle one which came with the first of that Cycling Weekly training series and it is surprising how much more interesting it makes it.

cougie

Ok - no 1 mile climbs nearby, but if you do long rides can you get to one ?

The turbo is better than doing nothing, but better still is just getting out on the bike and getting the miles in your legs and getting fitter and maybe even losing weight.

eh

Turbo is good for winter night training, but IMO, no substitute for getting outside.

Oh and you can ride out of the saddle on the turbo, but just be a little careful, ride smoothly and keep your upper body pretty static.

BeaconRuth

pedylan wrote:

Interesting point Ruth.

I rode the Etape Legende this year and got swept up at the 150km stage on the penultimate climb. I put my failure down to two factors.

1. A 39 x 26 bottom gear (just dumb, I nearly wore the damn thing out)
2. More importantly, no experience of real climbs (Etape Caledonia was not, as I naively thought, any kind of useful prep).

So living in the Vale of York, my intention was to travel further afield and do some real hills.

But you think not necessary - what regime would you substitute?

Well, I'd agree with you that you need lower gears, and being mentally prepared for the scale of the climbs on the continent is pretty important - but physiologically you can do all your preparation without going near a climb. I wouldn't advocate whacking up the resistance on the turbo and mindlessly grinding away, but a combination of sufficient miles and slightly higher intensity riding is all that's needed. A heart rate monitor would come in useful to approximately gauge how hard you're training - longish intervals at a 1-hour TT pace would be a good way to start. Lots of 2hr rides at a pace just too fast to hold a conversation. Did you do anything like this in preparation for the Etape Legende?

Ruth

jacksomd

Brian1 wrote:

I'm aiming to climb Ventoux next summer but there are no hills near me more than 1 mile long so I was thinking about buying a Tacx i-magic and the real life video of the Ventoux to help with the traiing.

I did the Ventoux at the end of September. As part of my preparation I did use the Tacx I-Magic and the Ventoux Real-Life video. In the end I think they were quite useful - particularly as a preview as to what the route was actually like. Not in terms of gradient (although the programme does give you a workout that simulates having to climb at a certain sustained power output for the whole route) but in terms of what to expect on the road. It even allowed me to identify a couple of places to stop in advance of the actual day. So, nothing came as a surprise on the day we did the climb.

If your interested I've written in some detail about the actual day on my wife's blog. You can see it at:

http://oldmanorborn.blogspot.com/2007/0 ... ux-ii.html

In the blog I also mention something we saw on the day while having a rest a Chalet Reynard - the street luge. If you think cyclists are crazy - well they have nothing on these guys. I've found this which I think is the same guys we saw on the day we did the climb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFmgDUNcSyo

In all, the best training I did for the Ventoux was just getting out and riding as much as posible - that and losing a bit of weight!

Marcus

cabledonuts

Never used the i-magic trainer but sounds reasonable to expect that watching the climb in front of you on a screen to replicate it could help. Some sort of visual aid can help your mental approach. There's always some mental aspect to these things as opposed to it just being physical. Presuming the software program portrays the climb accurately (road layout/scenery/etc) you can at least get some idea how the road pans out so when you get there you know what to expect to some degree. One of the things that you can't replicate when training on the flat is the relentlessness of a long climb - more so one that you don't know very well if at all. It's that mental side of it - that feeling of climbing when it's just relentless. You get round one bend and all you see is the road going up, round another bend, then a steeper section, asking yourself when it's going to end, the heat, sweat dripping into your eyes, the pain, asking yourself why you ever started riding a bike in the first place (but when you get to the top remember why!), etc, etc. You can replicate the pain by training on the flat and riding hard but it's a little different when climbing (mentally) as it seems to hurt that bit more when your only riding at 5-10mph and the top of the climb can be seen in the distance but it's taking forever to appear like it's getting any closer.

crackle

Having never done a climb like that I can't offer advice but I would imagine that the mental aspect is the one that matters most after your fitness.

Also, doing some actual climbs of a mile or more, which may be only small in comparison, clues you up to choosing the right gear, finding a rhythm, especially getting the gear and cadence right and tuning in mentally to climbing. So you may not need to specifically train on hills but in preparation it's useful to do some.

I've got four 1.4 ish 7-10% hills near me. Climbing these takes more out of me than a route twice or more as long on the flat but then again I don't train, I just ride for pleasure, so listen to them for training advice.

pedylan

BeaconRuth wrote:

pedylan wrote:

Interesting point Ruth.

I rode the Etape Legende this year and got swept up at the 150km stage on the penultimate climb. I put my failure down to two factors.

1. A 39 x 26 bottom gear (just dumb, I nearly wore the damn thing out)
2. More importantly, no experience of real climbs (Etape Caledonia was not, as I naively thought, any kind of useful prep).

So living in the Vale of York, my intention was to travel further afield and do some real hills.

But you think not necessary - what regime would you substitute?

Well, I'd agree with you that you need lower gears, and being mentally prepared for the scale of the climbs on the continent is pretty important - but physiologically you can do all your preparation without going near a climb. I wouldn't advocate whacking up the resistance on the turbo and mindlessly grinding away, but a combination of sufficient miles and slightly higher intensity riding is all that's needed. A heart rate monitor would come in useful to approximately gauge how hard you're training - longish intervals at a 1-hour TT pace would be a good way to start. Lots of 2hr rides at a pace just too fast to hold a conversation. Did you do anything like this in preparation for the Etape Legende?

Ruth

I think we're drifting off the OP a bit which was TT specific so I'll contact you via your web site to discuss traiing regimes. I've pre registered for next year's Etape so I assume you can offer some sort of guarantee!

Cheers

Down the Road

Brian1 wrote:

I'm aiming to climb Ventoux next summer but there are no hills near me more than 1 mile long so I was thinking about buying a Tacx i-magic and the real life video of the Ventoux to help with the traiing.Before I shell out the readies, is this going to be worth it and how realistic will it be in terms of effort compared to the real climb.

I magic is about 80 to 90% of the real thing. A good investment as you need to understand what it is like to climb for an hour.

Don't buy discount on line as these are NOT set up for UK power and may have problems hat are not supported on warrranty

fixiebob

I use the i -magic with fortious software it probably isnt anymore benificial than my old trainer but i can easily use it for an hour or more without getting to bored and if your an data freak you cant beat it.
As was said before dont buy cheap online and make sure you get fortious software.

pb21

I think good training for the mountains is to do 25/50 mile time trials, at least in this country.

I rode Ventoux last year and it was just like a time trial, a constant effort with no respite.

Just make sure you have a gear which means you wont be grinding.

calvjones

With the Ventoux, making sure you stay close enough to choose out of several days to ascend can be critical. I was out there last month, and the one day I could have attempted it, the Mistral was blowing hard enough to fly me to the Med, should I have gone up. On the other hand, 2 years ago April 22nd at 11am was the absolutely perfect time!

Just take your time, and shedloads of gears, you'll get up eventually!