Stopping Power - Callipers vs Brake Block Upgrade

fidbod

Hi all - I would appreciate your combined thoughts on the following...

I have an Allez Elite 2007 which has some unbranded dual pivot brakes front and back. The one thing that worries me on the bike is the lack of stopping power. more than once I have failed to stop at a red light and either nudged a car or ended up in the junction itself so my thoughts have turned to improving this part of the bike.

So to change the calipers, brake blocks or both is the question.

I would be happy spending the 50 odd quid to put tektro RX40 or ultegra callipers on the bike but the dura ace seem too much however good they are.

Or would putting some mavic SSC brake blocks make a big enough difference to render changing the calipers pointless?

aracer

Changing the calipers will make almost no difference at all apart from the fact that they come with better blocks. Save your money and just get better blocks.

Fab Foodie

Koolstop Salmons.

Changed from the standard Ultegra blocks (in Ultegra callipers) to Koolstop Salmons, and the difference in stopping power is immense, much more feel, much more powerful, much more confident.
Work waaaay better in the wet too.
They are so good that I use the Salmon in the front only and Koolstop black on the rear to stop flat-spotting the rear-tyre.

OK softer compound, so slightly faster wear, but worth it. Also do not seem to attract so much debris that grinds away the rims.

Much better and cheaper than new callipers.

simmo3801

Do you have to use the green ceramic specific ones for ceramic rims. May sound like a stupid question but my point is will the black or sal;mon ones damage ceramic rims in any way?

JWSurrey

I see you're a Londoner.
I run Swissstop green (GHP) blocks, available from Condor Cycles.
They're vastly superior to what I was running before (Tektro).

I find my Shimano 105 calipers much more effective than my Tektros, however the Tektros are deep-drop, which may make a difference.

I'm running Mavic rims on the Shimano setup. Mavic's rim machining process may well improve stopping power, over the Campag. rims, which seem to have a more straightforward indentation pattern.

fidbod

It seems there is a strong consensus towards new brake blocks being the answer, will give them a try and see what happens

JWSurrey, are these what you are running at the moment?

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ProductDetail.aspx?Cat=cycle&ProdID=5360031474&n=Swissstop%20Flash%20Green%20Pair%20Of%20Brake%20Blocks

gkerr4

I second the vote for the koolstop salmon pads. I have them all round on my trek road bike and the difference they make is unreal - they are significantly cheaper than swisstops too

also - I think I would be tempted to change the calipers as well. A set of 105 calipers can be bought fairly cheap these days and will be stronger bodied than the unbranded ones on your allez. They will be a bit lighter too and add to the looks of the bike (imo)

graeme_s-2

Sounds stupidly obvious, but check your brakes are set up properly and your pads are nice and close to your rim. I was highly unimpressed with the brakes on my new fixie compared to those on my road bike.

After a recent ride on my road bike I realised just how bad they were on the fixie, and when I had a proper look discovered that they were set up so the blocks were quite a long way off the rim. I pulled a bit more cable through so they were closer and got an instant improvement.

You're probably not as daft as me, but it's worth checking!

fidbod

Brakes seem well set up ... there is only a couple of milimetres clearance between the blocks and the rim and the blocks are well bedded in, they are worn down to the point where they fit the rims machining perfectly.

Thanks for all you input peoples....Maybe I won't be bring out the credit card for some blingy new brake calipers after all

JWSurrey

fidbod wrote:

JWSurrey, are these what you are running at the moment?

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ProductDetail.aspx?Cat=cycle&ProdID=5360031474&n=Swissstop%20Flash%20Green%20Pair%20Of%20Brake%20Blocks

Wow - Yeah, they're the ones.
The Shimano ones fitted my Tektro calipers - I think the bolt length is different if you buy the GHPs with Campag. shoes.
Anyhow, if you were to get these, when they come up for replacement, you can buy just the blocks.

simbil1

Another vote for the green swissstops - they are excellent.

You need this kind of (usually green) compound if you have a ceramic rim. If you use a softer compound, it will get chewed up and gum up the ceramic layer making a very unpredictable braking surface. Once you gum up the ceramic layer it is very hard to clean too. The green pads work fine on regular rims too and last longer than soft blocks.

Hugh A

Do you have to use the green ceramic specific ones for ceramic rims. May sound like a stupid question but my point is will the black or sal;mon ones damage ceramic rims in any way?

I would think it unlikely apart from the aforementioned gumming up of the rims. Most of the problem is with blocks wearing away too quickly or squealing horribly.

leonlikestrees

One dissenting voice here - there is a big difference between calipers. I can't comment specifically on your tektros, but I used to have some Tektro dual pivots, and I ended up swapping them for some old single pivot shimano 105's which were more powerful., Similairly, the old 8spd generation Shimano calipers were more powerful than the 9spd generation which had had a lot of material paired off them. Dunno about the 10spd ones.

Having said that, I can't really tell the difference between a pair of 105 and Dura-Ace calipers of the same generation. I would imagine you could improve things with better calipers, but by all means try changing the brake bblocks first, it's cheaper and you can always use them in the future.

Now I didn't say all this to try and flog you some calipers, but if you do want to try changing calipers once you;'ve tried the pads, I have a set orf RX100 shallow drop calipers, and a set of Ultegra 9spd shallow drop calipers for sale, both in good nick if you think that's the way to go.

Leon

JWSurrey

I forgot to say that my Tektros and my 105s are 2007 models.
Swissstop's URLs

www.swissstop.com

Which redirects to the following English site:
http://katrina.euservers.net/~simplysno ... =1&lang=en


Swissstop different compounds explained:
http://katrina.euservers.net/~simplysno ... st&lang=en

simbil1

Hugh A wrote:

I would think it unlikely apart from the aforementioned gumming up of the rims. Most of the problem is with blocks wearing away too quickly or squealing horribly.

Hugh, have you used normal pads on a ceramic rim? I have - it is a really bad idea as the gumming up prevents modulation - the brakes go from slipping over the gummy surface to full on. I gummed up my front wheel and went over the bars as the wheel locked up and I broke my collar bone as a result. It is very dangerous! The softer the pad and the harder the braking, the worse it will be. Just don't do it, especially not on your front wheel.

JWSurrey

Hugh A wrote:

...gumming up of the rims. Most of the problem is with blocks wearing away too quickly or squealing horribly.

Oh, and Mavic also do an excellent "rim cleaning rubber" - Essentially a rubber block that you drag round the rim to clean it off.... unless you prefer the old rag and elbow grease/cleaner method. Useful for keeping that winter "grinding paste" off the hardware - I also pick out my blocks with a jeweller's screwdriver - some recommend just re-facing them using a metal file every so-often to deglaze and de-grit them.