Some harsh truths

LangerDan

I heard recently the annual budget for one of the middle-field Continental womens teams, the sort that will compete in some World Cup races plus a mixture of local / national event and has 10 or so riders.

Would anyone care to guess?

Jeff Jones

50-100 grand? Currency of your choice.

Guessing, even though I have some idea of what 'pro' women get paid.

LangerDan

The man wins the prize - ~€60K / £40K for a squad that contains over two dozen riders including some big names, though probably only a half dozen of so race an event. Its hard to compare them in status to a mens squad but they would be at the Skil-Shimano / Agritubel level or higher.

Many of the women pro's , even at the top level, are pro's in name only - they work "ordinary" jobs for much of the year so they can afford to be full time bike-riders for 6 months. Even Marianne Vos is still at college, IIRC.

€60K - Liquigas probably spend more on hair gel.

Jeff Jones

That confirms what I thought. A budget of that size isn't going to get you to many races, let alone pay anyone.

Most women who race professionally do it for reasons other than money, and as a result most don't have long careers.

So where's cycling's equivalent of Billie-Jean King?

BeaconRuth

It's hard to imagine any 'pro' woman beating a pro bloke in a straight cycling contest, but surely that shouldn't be necessary? Nobody is trying to pretend that women are as strong as men.

TBH, in the UK, Nicole Cooke and Victoria Pendleton will do more (and are doing more) for women's racing by acting as role models and inspiring young women than just about anything else. British Cycling also seem to be faultlessly unbiased - which I applaud.

Ruth

ricadus

Surely outside of the ProTour world the money drops off massively even in mens' procycling. Looking at our own small pond I bet teams doing the 'Premier Calendar' would love to have 40K a year in sponsorship money, whereas without a lot of goodwill (i.e. self-funded expenses/working for free) they wouldn't exist.

LangerDan

I'm sure it does, but the teams that would be targetting Premier Calendar races wouldn't be expected to go toe-to-toe with the ProTour teams as well as compete in World Cup and stage races events equivalent to Paris Nice or the Tour de l'Avenir. The womens teams are expected to play at the top level.

petecossins

At the risk of repeating some of the rant I had earlier this week, the problem for the likes of Cooke and Pendleton is that they have so few opportunities to show themselves on the major stages. I do think progress is being made though, and Victoria's part in the new Oakley campaign is a small part of that. I don't know about her being cycling's Billie Jean King, but she has the looks and personality as well as the ability to get herself noticed. My fear is that with just one event seemingly open to her in Beijing, she hasn't got any margin for error at all.,

LangerDan

petecossins wrote:

. I do think progress is being made though, and Victoria's part in the new Oakley campaign is a small part of that. I don't know about her being cycling's Billie Jean King, but she has the looks and personality as well as the ability to get herself noticed.

I do realise that I risk sounding like a particualrly cranky Andrea Dworkin but it has been very noticeable over the past few years that many of the women riders (e.g Rochelle Gilmore, Nikki Gudex and several of the Continental cyclocrossers) are becoming more famous for their "glamour" portfolio than for their achievements. There is a severe danger of the sport creating its very own Anna Kournikova.
I only hope that Pat McQuaid doesn't decide that it would be in the interest of the ProTour for the men to reciprocate - the image of Stefan Schumacher draped in chiffon is not something the public should be expected to see.

petecossins wrote:

My fear is that with just one event seemingly open to her in Beijing, she hasn't got any margin for error at all.,

She could always take up BMX

petecossins

you can't compare pendleton and kournikova. The Russian was a decent tennis player who never won a tournament but got rich based on her looks. I don't know about Schumacher in chiffon, but what about Boonen as Gladiator? See page 57 of the current Procycling for evidence that the men are quite happy to dress up as well

ricadus

Don't forget we've already got a likely Beijing medalist for womens' BMX, in the form of Shanaze Reade:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_s ... 921282.stm

bigdawg

hows does £40k pay anyones wages??? Or are they all doing ir for the love of the sport?

LangerDan

bigdawg wrote:

hows does £40k pay anyones wages??? Or are they all doing ir for the love of the sport?

Essentially yes. even some of the suppport staff are voluntary or paid only for race days. There is some equipment sponsorship and some riders may be "loaned" special equipment for key events.
Further up the pecking order, there is (relatively speaking) a lot more money but I would imagine that it is only the top 4 or 5 teams have any budget worth speaking of.

bigdawg

jeez, thats really sad, especially when you consider the amounts spent on some lesser known guys teams...

what a F8cked up sport....

Ste_S

LangerDan wrote:

.I do think progress is being made though, and Victoria's part in the new Oakley campaign is a small part of that. I don't know about her being cycling's Billie Jean King, but she has the looks and personality as well as the ability to get herself noticedI do realise that I risk sounding like a particualrly cranky Andrea Dworkin but it has been very noticeable over the past few years that many of the women riders (e.g Rochelle Gilmore, Nikki Gudex and several of the Continental cyclocrossers) are becoming more famous for their "glamour" portfolio than for their achievements. There is a severe danger of the sport creating its very own Anna Kournikova.

In this country Victoria Pendleton get's a lot more coverage than Nicole Cooke, when traditionally road cyclists have greater exposure than track ones.

Is this because Victoria is a lot more media savy than Nicole and is prepared to play the 'glamour' photo game ?

ricadus

Cooke's living in Switzeland though, where her team is based; it's probably easier for a UK TV crew to get to Manchester than Lugano.

flattythehurdler

The answer would be to enforce a certain female quotient in all pro tour teams.

BeaconRuth

Ste_S wrote:

In this country Victoria Pendleton get's a lot more coverage than Nicole Cooke, when traditionally road cyclists have greater exposure than track ones.

I'm not sure she does does she? Cooke made it into the short list for SPOTY, remember - I wonder if Pendleton will manage that, even with 3 World Championship titles?

Is this because Victoria is a lot more media savy than Nicole and is prepared to play the 'glamour' photo game ?

I've always thought Cooke is exceptionally good in front of a microphone - I don't think she has any media shortcomings, except not playing the glamour game. What a shame that anyone considers her less media-savvy because of that.

Ruth

leguape

BeaconRuth wrote:

Ste_S wrote:

In this country Victoria Pendleton get's a lot more coverage than Nicole Cooke, when traditionally road cyclists have greater exposure than track ones.

I'm not sure she does does she? Cooke made it into the short list for SPOTY, remember - I wonder if Pendleton will manage that, even with 3 World Championship titles?

Is this because Victoria is a lot more media savy than Nicole and is prepared to play the 'glamour' photo game ?

I've always thought Cooke is exceptionally good in front of a microphone - I don't think she has any media shortcomings, except not playing the glamour game. What a shame that anyone considers her less media-savvy because of that.

Ruth

I think Victoria shades it for me because she seems better at not getting riled by idiot reporters who can't get their facts straight (myself included: I managed to misbrief a reporter this year and knocked about four years off her age). Nicole has a tendency to get a bit defensive sometimes and can come across as a bit chippy when dealing with the less well briefed journalists.

Nicole was 5 live's alternative choice for SPOTY on the Derbyshire show and I know they've tried to get her on this year but I think there is also the issue of her always being away in Europe racing. Not forgetting that Victoria has been very actively involved in the Olympic drive and as a face of British Cycling, a role Nicole has never really pursued.

Ste_S

BeaconRuth wrote:

]I've always thought Cooke is exceptionally good in front of a microphone - I don't think she has any media shortcomings, except not playing the glamour game. What a shame that anyone considers her less media-savvy because of that.

Ruth

I certainly don't think any less of her for not doing glamour type photo shoots, just trying to make a point that Pendleton is more media friendly because unfortunately the media prefer women who are prepared to glam it up. Luckily Pendleton has the talent to warrant all of the coverage she gets.

BeaconRuth

Ste_S wrote:

I certainly don't think any less of her for not doing glamour type photo shoots, just trying to make a point that Pendleton is more media friendly because unfortunately the media prefer women who are prepared to glam it up. Luckily Pendleton has the talent to warrant all of the coverage she gets.

I can't argue with that.

Ruth

PeteinSQ

Presumably Victoria Pendleton and the other female cyclists who are going to be taking part in the Olympics get lottery funding? That is the usual way that they can devote all of their time to the sport, that and any sponsorship deals that they have.

PeteinSQ

http://www.uksport.gov.uk/pages/sports_funding/

jamesblodgett

I read an interview that Kristin Armstrong gave after she won the world TT championship where she talked about working 20 hours a week at Home Depot in the paint department. :shock:

Last year, we were coming home from the Nature Valley Grand Prix finale in Stillwater, MN and my 11 year old son is all excited about being a pro racer, when we pull up next to a beat up minivan covered in bikes and wheels and stuffed with gear and 8 guys we had just seen racing. It wasn't quite glamor he had been expecting, but it gave us a chance to talk about goals.

andy_wrx

Jeff Jones wrote:

Most women who race professionally do it for reasons other than money, and as a result most don't have long careers.

So where's cycling's equivalent of Billie-Jean King?

Jeannie Longo ?