Bikes on public transport... your take?

Kuruhuhu

Hi everyone!

I am a Product Design student whose final your project is based around cyclists and public transport.

I would to know any experiences you have with public transport, the good, the bad and the ugly so to speak.

I also believe that uncertainty has a part to play on whether you take your bike to the bus / train station incase there isnt sufficient storage or if the bus / train is too full. Would you agree or disagree with this statement?

Any feedback you give me would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks!

Iain

hamboman

It seems an increasingly common trend for train co.s to ban bikes from peak services. I understood the government was keen to promote green transport, so why are train operators not forced to take bikes? It's currently discretionary but this needs to change.

graeme_s-2

Uncertainty is a huge problem. If I could walk into a train station with my bike, and know that I'd be able to get onto any train with my bike, then I think that would drastically increase the amount I use trains.

There was a letter in either C+ or Cycle (the CTC's in house magazine) in the last few months from a guy who'd been planning to go on a cycling holiday with his family. They were planning to get the train from where they lived to the area they were going to go cycling in. There were 4 of them, all with bikes. They spoke to the appropriate rail operator, and were told they'd only be allowed 2 bikes on any one service and they'd have to be booked in advance. There were only 2 services a day to where they wanted to go, so that would have basically meant an extra day of waiting around at stations at either end of the holiday to get all 4 of them in the same place. It's madness!

I have taken my bike on Virgin trains a few times. They have two bike storage solutions. One is a small room with 4 purpose built racks, these are quite good, but it means you can only get 4 bikes on a train. The other trains just have a general luggage area, which you have to get a member of staff to let you into and out of, there doesn't appear to be any way to properly secure your bike, and it gets rattled around all over the place.

It should be a condition of the rail franchises that train operators should have a reasonable capacity to carry bicycles at all times. Anything else is just lip service.

I'd be unlikely to ever attempt to take my bike on a bus anyway, even if I knew I could do.

alfablue

So many train services (if they do allow bikes) only permit 2 per train. This has completely scuppered my plans to ride the C2C with my son and his g/f. Also, the particular service does not permit booking. I have found in practice that often more than two are allowed on, but no way would I travel the 300+ miles up north when there is no certainty that we will all (or indeed any of us) manage to get on the train. Worst case scenario - we could be stranded for an unlimited time if there were other cyclists to compete for space with. The whole system is a shambles and is in effect, anti-cycling, despite the superficially positive noises the train operators make.

I would definitely agree with your uncertainty theory!

The BIG GT

I recently wrote to TfL regarding the possibility of putting bike racks on the front of buses, as they do (very successfully) in Vancouver.

I feel that this would encourage two different sets of people to cycle more; those that would cycle at least some of the way to work but are either too wary of traffic in the centre or who would catch the bus in and cycle the last, most congested central part of the city/town and those who would use the bus for any particularly steep or hilly sections and cycle the rest.

The response was typical. Without any figures or reasoning to back it up, they said that it would delay the bus too much for other passengers... :roll: and that there would be too much of a danger that the bikes would come loose and cause an accident.

The system in Vancouver takes less time to lock the bike in place than for your average granny/young mum to get her money out of her purse and the two point locking system is as near to 100% safe as you are going to get and cetainly safer than the current number of poorly-trained drivers using 'bendy buses'.

It's basically too much like hard work for them....
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WyS

the old slam door trains were fine. they had a dedicated empty carriage in the middle you could fit a load of bikes in, with a guard bit next to it.

Now on these fancy new ones you get 2 bikes on!! per train in some cases!

I absolutely hate public transport, only use it when i have no other choice, and dont pay for it unless i have to.

John the Monkey

Can't add much more to what's been said really. Facilities on the trains are good, but there's too little room, and the very time that you're likely to want to use them is the time that you're least likely to be able to (speaking as someone considering a "multimode" commute). Facilities are also poorly signed and little understood by your fellow passengers, in my experience (who frequently sit in the folding seats in front of the racks, effectively blocking the bike area, regardless of how much room there is on the rest of the train).

The government's response (so far as I'm aware) has been to say that decisions on bike carriage are down to individual train operators.

Random Vince

someone i know has a tandem, he likes booking it in as one bike and turning up at the station with it (and his wife)

he gets into lots of arguments with virgin trains



i've been kicked off the train 6/8 times as i've not booked my bike on (unable to do so at short notice and for when and where i'm traveling and booking)

Kuruhuhu

Hey everyone...

Thank you very much for your responses so far... its ALL gold dust of info for me!

For the multimode commuter and perhaps the short notice user, Im guessing that the chance of not getting onto the train / bus with your bike is a big motivator NOT to use public transport?

Ive checked out the front loading bike racks from different countries and yes, it looks like an efficient and easy system to use...

John The Monkey

Facilities on the trains are good, but there's too little room, and the very time that you're likely to want to use them is the time that you're least likely to be able to (speaking as someone considering a "multimode" commute)

I understand where you are coming from, but say if you were forced or required to use public transport (tubes burst / severe weather) what would you do?

- Thanks again!

Iain

Aidocp

First Scotrail have retrofitted a lot of their trains and their new trains are even better. I use to take my bike on the train in the morning peak and cycle home at night about a year and a half back; I never had a problem, a few stops down the line it would of been bad though.
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richardast

One Railway (formerly WAGN) bans bikes from peak services. I'm fortunate in being a shiftworker so it rarely causes me a problem.

Stansted Express bans bikes completely, but does allow obece people with arses that fill two seats and suitcases that block the aisle to travel on a single ticket (en route to the airport to catch their fuel tax-free flight). No, I'm not bitter. Not much.

I have to stand by the doors with the bike most of the time. One in every four carriages has a special bike holder. It's a piece of webbing with a velcro pad on it :roll: . And it involves positioning your bike so that it prevents two seats being used. Genius.

melliff

My partner and I have used various National Rail services over the last two years when doing long distance cycling tours. The mainline routes we have used had between 3 and 6 cycle spaces, which is not enough, but the really dumb thing is that on a couple of occasions, we could not make the bike reservations at the same time as buying the tickets, which we usually bought well in advance of the date of travel so as to get the best price. We had to book the bikes separately and much nearer the travelling time.

Our other gripe is that one gets very little help from station or train staff with getting the bikes aboard. The location of the carriage with the cycle spaces is unpredictable (sometimes at the front of the train, sometimes at the back) and there is usually no-one around to help to stow them correctly and safely.

Taking bikes by train is infinitely preferable to taking them by car, but they don't make it easy.

John the Monkey

Kuruhuhu wrote:

John The Monkey

Facilities on the trains are good, but there's too little room, and the very time that you're likely to want to use them is the time that you're least likely to be able to (speaking as someone considering a "multimode" commute)

I understand where you are coming from, but say if you were forced or required to use public transport (tubes burst / severe weather) what would you do?

I did *have* to take the train recently (my back brake failed, and I didn't fancy an 8 mile commute on fairly major roads with only one). Essentially I tried to get to the station as early as I could (so that the train wouldn't be too busy). The service I was using had two bike spaces, located by a row of four(?) folding seats. I was warned that if the train got busy, I'd be turfed out. The train wasn't full, but bizarrely a young lady chose to sit in the furthest of the four seats just as I was parking the bike, meaning that the bike had to be angled out into the carriage more than it should have been. (Hence my point about signage etc) I wasn't overly bothered as the journey is only about 20mins by train - had another cyclist got on, I'd have asked her to move so both bikes could be stowed.

If I had an emergency on the commute, I reckon I'd probably walk to the nearest station and take my chances (or walk to my destination, depending on distance). Ideally, there should be enough space that if I pay for a ticket, I can be certain of completing my journey - the expectation should not be that I have a long wait until post-peak travel commences.

John the Monkey

Just to add to that slightly, I'd be more worried (am more worried) about a homeward commute, largely because its timing is out of my hands (I can get to work earlier, but leaving to catch an off peak train would be either too early or too late), and because the trains are likely to be much busier.

In the case of my multimode day because of brake failure, the bike was fixed in time for me to ride it home, so that problem didn't arise.

andrewgturnbull

Aidocp wrote:

First Scotrail have retrofitted a lot of their trains and their new trains are even better. I use to take my bike on the train in the morning peak and cycle home at night about a year and a half back; I never had a problem, a few stops down the line it would of been bad though.
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Hi there.

Seconded. FirstScotrail (and Scotrail before them) have an excellent bike carriage policy.

I've spent the last 10 years commuting between glasgow and stirling - mostly riding one way and taking the train the other way. I can only remember 2 occasions when I've been turned away from a train in those 10 years.

All trains have space for 2 bikes, most have space for 4. While the carriages that are used on the West Highland line have hanging space for 6 bikes.

You can book a bike on any service free of charge if you're booking a seat for yourself at the same time. Although 99% of the time I don't bother.

Cheers, Andy

C1234

see my previous thread:
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12546833

Also a few months back, got stranded midway on the way home when my pedal exploded! A walked/freewheeled a couple of miles to a local town and tried to get on 3 successive busses.

Each one refused (albeit reluctantly) to carry the bike, even though I offered to take the wheels off, handlebars off and seat out, and put it on the pushchair shelf, and even though there was 2 or 3 passengers at most sharing the bus.

In the end I had to beg a lift over a pay phone, 2 hours wait in lycra shorts and tshirt, in the cold, dark, chav central, 15 miles away from home. No lock either or I'd have swallowed my pride and gone to wait in a pub.

As for trains, The odd occasion I have tried, I've mostly been lucky, and even avoided the cover charge by pleading ignorance. I always get reprimanded for not booking though, and it was getting kinda embarrassing when I got the same guard 4 days on the trot one time.

Jon G

Kuruhuhu wrote:

Hi everyone!

I would to know any experiences you have with public transport, the good, the bad and the ugly so to speak.

Good
- the large spaces available on many preserved railways.
- the willingness of Hebridean bus operators to carry bikes.
- rail staff willing to help cope with the limits imposed by new stock design.
- the 60cm gauge Bure Valley Railway still managing to carry 4 bikes per train (full-size
train operators only able to carry 2 should indeed blush).

Bad
- lack of capacity on modern trains.
- rail staff directing cyclists to the wrong ends of platforms.
- bus company managers telling customers they carry cycles but not telling drivers,
leading to cyclists being refused carriage.
- train cycle spaces designed to hold stripped-down bikes only, when travellers
often have bikes with luggage attached, which then has to be stripped off to fit
the bike in the space.
- train bike storage involving hanging a bike up by one wheel, which can be difficult with
non-standard cycles & for cyclists not strong enough to lift their machines, and as
above mean all luggage has to be stripped off.
- rail passengers occupying space intended for cycles and being uncooperative over
moving.
- rail staff not being on hand to unlock doors giving access to cycle spaces on HSTs,
225's and Pedolinos. I recently spent 15mins with my bike locked up at Euston.
- inability of rail booking websites to handle making cycle reservations.

Ugly
- rail operators who carry few (e.g. 2) bikes per train but refuse to make advance
reservations even for infrequent services, making trying to use such services a big risk
of being stranded.

I also believe that uncertainty has a part to play on whether you take your bike to the bus / train station incase there isnt sufficient storage or if the bus / train is too full. Would you agree or disagree with this statement?

Yes. As above, setting off in the hope that their might be a space but with a alternative plan in case there is not is not usually practical. At best it means building a lot of extra time into a plan to allow for not catching the first one of a frequent service, at worst not being able to make a journey at all for fear of getting stranded at some point.

Jon

Kuruhuhu

Cant tell you all how much help this is!

Ive contacted a few companies and am going to be taking everything i can into account and am understanding more and more about how everyone handles public transport...

Im understand that everyone here is passionate about their cycling... but are there any BMX'ers? Where i stay (Perth, Scotland) i have seen plenty of BMX'ers loading into the vestibules... which the conductors do not appreciate! haha

Now im not sure how to put this (so please dont rip me apart ) but does anyone deal with public transport with "non-standard" bikes? eg bmx or folding bikes etc...

Keeping it coming everyone!

Cheers
-Iain

AidanR

I once got a recumbent trike onto a train in Wimbledon. No idea how - they're supposed to be banned (not that I realised this until afterwards). It's about as non-standard as bikes get though! I got some odd looks.

Other than that I take a bike from Edinburgh to St. Andrews and back twice a week and don't usually have a problem (Scotrail & Virgin [supposed to book with Virgin but never had a problem]). A GNER train turned up once and despite the fact it was virtually empty and had loads of bike space they turned me away. That's all with a road bike though.

Professorlandslide

I've spent a chunk of this year multi-modalling with a folding bike. Great idea, when the trains actually turn up. I'm happy with the folder as my main and only bike, but a lot of people wouldn't be, and i do think that in this day and age of green-ness and all that stuff, some enterprising train company should start a 'cyclist's' coach - like the quiet and family coaches, with maybe half seats and half bike racks, and its own refreshments stand - or a at least vending machines. How cool would it be to hop on a train, grab a tea or coffee and cake, geek with the other cyclists and then hop off and zap off to your destination?

timestar

My experience is based on Virgin Trains and Central Trains in and around the West and East Midlands. Part of the problem is that the second you turn with a bike at the station, you are automatically treated as second class, i.e. if train is busy you get kicked off. Last week a guy was told he couldn't get on as they wanted to get the train away on time and staff couldn't be bothered to worry about getting him on and in the right place. On Central Trains, if you are prepared to tough out the glares and moans from other commuters, you can usually squeeze on even during peak hours.

whome

I think cycle racks on buses would be a great idea and better facilities on trains with more certainty for turn up and get on.

However, just a point or two about the cycle rack response from TfL - their point about extra time may be semi-valid as London buses do not take cash anymore do they (or is that just central London)? But if it can work in Vancouver (and areas of USA I think - Seattle perhaps?) - then there must be some more data out there to throw at TfL about how it can work. Of course the new shiny and trendy bendy buses would probably look out of place with a rack stuck on the front.

el_presidente

Lots of American cities have buses with bike racks on the fornt for 2 or 3 bikes

Especially useful in San Francisco if you get fed up with the hills

This picture is Toronto but the principle is the same everywhere

t4tomo

My commute is in & out of London - the only solution is a Brompton (or other inferior folding bike).

Re:
"Our other gripe is that one gets very little help from station or train staff with getting the bikes aboard. The location of the carriage with the cycle spaces is unpredictable (sometimes at the front of the train, sometimes at the back) and there is usually no-one around to help to stow them correctly and safely."

I think its fair enough having to put your own bike on and off the train, although being open about which end of the train th carriage is shouldn't be above and beyond the call of duty.

The whole railway network needs a shake up re bike facilities, which is at best limited and for tandems viurtually impossible unless you chance across a friendly train operator.

Jon G

whome wrote:

I think cycle racks on buses would be a great idea

I'd say they would be some use on long-distance services, where there might be demand for just 1 or 2 bike spaces per journey and they could be reserved in advance, or in rural areas where capacity only very rarely exceeded demand (e.g. as is already done in the Outer Hebrides). Otherwise, the shortage of spaces combined with high or varying demand would make them more trouble than they were worth.

If the inherently limited capacity of a bus bike rack was below the usual level of demand then they would be of little use to most potential users - trying to use one would create the same problem as the non-reservable 2 bikes per train routes. The high likelihood of finding the rack already full would make planing a journey involving one into too much of a gamble for it to be useful to most cyclists.

Bearing in mind the disorderly scrums which gather around many bus stops in London at busy times, just imagine the plight of a bus driver finding, say, 10 people there all pushing & shoving to get their bikes into the two spaces in the bus bike rack - and as for school travel times .....

Jon

AdamP

commute to liverpool street on ONE (spelt C*NTS) then bike it to Victoria

had to leave the loverly mountain bike at home and get a folder as no room for proper bikes with all the polish builders, etc that clearly need to get a train at 7.20am.

generally, if the train is busy you get looked at like you just defiled their toddler while a lot of exceptionally overweight people / fools from East Anglia with suitcases are treated as normal even though they are far more inconvenient. I manage to get off a packed train carrying my foldie without slowing anyone down, but a fool with a suitcase can cause a riot

not good. not integrated transport. no choice

:evil: