Pendelton and co hard done by?

petecossins

Apologies for the blatant plug of the latest Procycling blog, but I'd be interested to get some feedback on what other fans think about women's track cycling being squeezed out of the picture at the Olympics.

http://www.bikeradar.com/blogs/article/a-disgrace-in-the-21st-century-12861

DaveyL

You need to remove the "" bit at the end of your link for it to work.

DaveyL

And you're right - it is a disgrace, what has been done to *all* the track riders. Sod the Olympics, the Worlds are where it's at.

petecossins

thanks Davey

It seems totally random that out of as many as 15 events each for the men and women at the Worlds, only 10 in total appear at the Olympics yet some swimmers get any number of chances to win medals. Bearing in mind the strength of the British track team, this surely needs to be rectified before 2012.

LangerDan

If, for the sake of argument, the UK had a crap track team and were wiping the boards with everyone in BMX, would people be as upset or is there something more than philanthropy at work here? The issues of equality (no. of mens vs. womens events) and balance (cycling events vs. say swimming) still apply.

In any case, all the medals will go to 13 year old Chinese riders.

redddraggon

LangerDan wrote:

If, for the sake of argument, the UK had a crap track team and were wiping the boards with everyone in BMX, would people be as upset or is there something more than philanthropy at work here?

From what I understand we concentrated on the Track cycling because there's a better chance of medals, hence the British is good on the Track. Now that they've cut the track events all the time and effort spent becoming one of the top countries on the track is worth less now.

People are upset because they've targetted these events and now they are going.

(Don't take me for gospel on all this)

vermooten

She can hold my world titles whenever she likes.

iainf72

redddraggon wrote:

From what I understand we concentrated on the Track cycling because there's a better chance of medals, hence the British is good on the Track. Now that they've cut the track events all the time and effort spent becoming one of the top countries on the track is worth less now.

I think you're pretty close to the mark. They get lottery money based on medals.

As someone who thinks of track cycling much the same way as I think of baseball (ie, of no interest to me) may I ask how popular it actually is? I know it's an Olympic sport and all, but is it on the decline?

Anonymous

iainf72 wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

From what I understand we concentrated on the Track cycling because there's a better chance of medals, hence the British is good on the Track. Now that they've cut the track events all the time and effort spent becoming one of the top countries on the track is worth less now.

I think you're pretty close to the mark. They get lottery money based on medals.

As someone who thinks of track cycling much the same way as I think of baseball (ie, of no interest to me) may I ask how popular it actually is? I know it's an Olympic sport and all, but is it on the decline?

Depends on the Format of the meetings.
Both the World Champs last year, and the Nationals this year were embarrassingly under attended at the M/C Velodrome whereas 'The Revolution' meetings at the same track play to capacity crowds.

BeaconRuth

petecossins wrote:

............ I'd be interested to get some feedback on what other fans think about women's track cycling being squeezed out of the picture at the Olympics.

I think you can argue the rights and wrongs of BMX vs track cycling vs swimming vs any other sport, but what seems completely indefensible to me is the inbalance between the number of events for women and the number for men on the track. I'm trying to think whether there's the same blatant discrimination in other sports at the Olympics - I suppose there must be gender differences in Olympic participation in other sports too (eg boxing?).

BTW Pete, what are the 15 events that you say women can compete in at the Worlds? I'm struggling to think of more than 7:

Sprint
Keirin
Team Sprint
500m
Pursuit
Scratch
Points


Ruth

ricadus

What she's got to do is take the annoyance caused by the IOC and focus it into what few events (one?) she has got left.

andyp

ricadus wrote:

What she's got to do is take the annoyance caused by the IOC and focus it into what few events (one?) she has got left.

Just to clarify, it has nothing to do with the IOC. It was the UCI, and Pat McQuaid, who made this decision. :roll:

petecossins

you're right Ruth, there are only seven events. I think the list I was looking at listed both the men's and women's events under the same women's heading. That's my excuse anyway. But I still can't see any reason why the men get seven events and the women three.

It seems strange that while there has been a big focus on levelling up the playing field in track and field so that men and women do the same or at least equivalent events, in cycling it seems to be going the other way. I don't suppose there is too much difference between the number of events for men and women in swimming either.

Moomaloid

Woo! Roll on the Bungee Jumping, Roller Blading, Kite Surfing, tiddly winking.... dear oh dear!

BeaconRuth

petecossins wrote:

.........But I still can't see any reason why the men get seven events and the women three.

I suppose the reasons are several:

- generally more men take part in track cycling,
- there's a far longer-established history of men doing track racing than women,
- there is more interest in men's track racing,
- events such as the Women's Keirin have only made it into the World Championships in recent years,
- men's track racing is undeniably more powerful and faster and therefore arguably a better spectator sport,
- even at the Worlds there are fewer Women's events than men's (no women's madison or team pursuit)

However, these are reasons not excuses. There should be no excuse for such blatant discrimination in this day and age. But competitive cycling women of all disciplines face this. Which cycling magazine (which tries to give any meaningful coverage of competitive cycling) gives equal attention to women's cycle racing as men's? None of course.

It seems strange that while there has been a big focus on levelling up the playing field in track and field so that men and women do the same or at least equivalent events, in cycling it seems to be going the other way.

To be strictly accurate, the only change that has happened since Sydney and Athens, AFAIK, is the removal of one men's event and one women's event. You could argue they should have removed two men's events, but from an equality point of view, they removed exactly the same number from both genders, arguably therefore maintaining the same inbalance rather than making the situation worse

Ruth

drenkrom

If track cycling is on the decline, then what about BMX? BMX racing stopped being cool in 1989. Yet they're putting that in and cutting on the track. We often criticize the UCI, and with reason, but the IOC have their heads at least 3 feet deeper in their asses.

BeaconRuth

You may think track cycling is on the decline, Drenkom, but I think very much otherwise, in the UK, at least. There's a magnificent tale of hard work and success in bringing youngsters into the world of track cycling which took place just last Saturday:

http://www.veloriders.co.uk/phpBB2/view ... hp?t=61321

The skills and riding standard of the youth and junior riders in the UK is now probably higher than it's ever been and there are a stack of senior world champions around who not only inspire from a distance, but who are actually making time to work with these youngsters, motivate them, give them tips, even go on the track with them to demonstrate!

The numbers of juniors and the standard of riding at the national track championships is now so high that you have to be of at least European, if not World class to win a junior national jersey - just look at the number of mega-talented, well-supported, and well-prepared junior sprinters waiting to take the torch from Hoy, Maclean, Staff............

Ruth

iainf72

BeaconRuth wrote:

You may think track cycling is on the decline, Drenkom, but I think very much otherwise, in the UK, at least. There's a magnificent tale of hard work and success in bringing youngsters into the world of track cycling which took place just last Saturday:

You've sort of hit the nail on the head - If track cycling is on the decline outside of the UK (I have no idea if it is btw, just an if) what's happening in the UK is largely irrelevant. If it's popularity is dropping off worldwide then getting rid of some of the events from the Olympics makes sense.

If it's not in decline then it's just the UCI up to their nonsense again.

drenkrom

I never thought track cycling was on the decline. It was an argument raised earlier in the thread, which I find kind of redundant if that's the reason you'd use to downgrade one sport in favor of a much much more declining sport. Sorry, I don't use the "quote" function enough.

BMX racing is absolutely redundant ever since MTB 4X was introduced. If you want fast, edgy, sprinty races where bike handling is the absolute key to winning, that's where it's at. I really don't see what BMX has to do with the Olympics.

afx237vi

To be perfectly honest, and I'm probably revealing my own ignorance here, until the kilo controversy last year I had no idea that BMX was an actual sport. I just thought it was a social / cultural thing, like skateboarding and all that X Games business.

I remember watching the Winter Olympics last year and being totally underwhelmed by the snowboarding. Talk about trying too hard to be cool.

Eddy S

Unlike one or two of the posters here I care very much about track cycling, taking part as well as watching it..

Pete, sadly the issue of the Kilo and 500TT being removed from the Olympics had kind of been done to death at the time of the announcement, including a petition supported by over 10,000 people. Even though it was signed by many past and current elite competitors and world champions, this level of support plus representation from various federations could not get the UCI to reverse the decision - http://www.petitiononline.com/1000k/petition.html. Search the BC site for “UCI Axes Kilo” for some further insight.

And this is not the end - wait to see what track/road event gets cut out when they want to introduce skateboarding to the Olympics…

ANTON DE LACEY wrote:

the World Champs last year… were embarrassingly under attended at the M/C Velodrome

Do you mean the UCI World Cup meeting earlier this year? I was there for all 3 days of the World Cup at Manchester in Feb and although Friday wasn’t sold out and the early part of Saturday had a quite start, “embarrassingly attended” is certainly not a phrase that I would use.

iainf72 wrote:

I know it's an Olympic sport and all, but is it on the decline?

Try going to a Revolution meeting or a 6 day or the finals day of the sprint, Keirin or pursuit at a World Champs or World Cup event and then come back and tell us about the global decline of track cycling :roll:

Ruth, at World Cup and World Championship level there is nearly parity in the numbers of events – this year see the introduction of Women’s Team Pursuit. It just leave the Madison and the Omnium. I've never researched why there is such disparity at the Olympics though.

iainf72

Eddy S wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

I know it's an Olympic sport and all, but is it on the decline?

Try going to a Revolution meeting or a 6 day or the finals day of the sprint, Keirin or pursuit at a World Champs or World Cup event and then come back and tell us about the global decline of track cycling :roll:

I'm not saying it is, I was questioning whether it was.

Here's what I see - Barely any TV coverage aside from the Worlds and Olympics. How do you draw people to the track to see it if there is limited TV coverage in the first place? The "big" names from the road don't really bother with track so it's not as if following your favourite rider is going to take to you to the velodrome.

petecossins

I think that question of how you attract people to track meets is a key one. While millions turned out to see the Tour in the UK for a few seconds this summer, I think a lot of them would get a whole lot more out of a visit to a track meet. I've taken non-cycling friends and family to Manchester and they've loved it, and I guess the key will be to build on any success Britain does have on the track in Beijing and keep that going through to 2012.

Referring back to an earlier comment, I'm pretty sure I did sign the petition protesting against the removal of the time trial events on the track. My main beef, though, remains the lack of opportunity for women to shine on the track at the Olympics. At a time when the government is trying to develop role models for kids, and especially girls, to become more active and do sport, it seems crazy that the IOC and UCI are going in the opposite direction. I realise that BMX might appeal to girls as well but why does cycling have to get squeezed all the time?

I also take the point that the media have a role to play too. I'd like to cover more women's cycling but our research suggests readers - who are mainly men - aren't that keen. This means our coverage of women's cycling does tend to be erratic, but I think that will be less so as riders like Vos, Cooke, Pendleton and others become bigger names.

OffTheBackAdam

There's too many events in the Olympics anyway, far too many "Mickey Mouse" ones too.
The same goes for cycling, although many are interesting to watch, be it synchro-swimming (Hell, I have enough trouble swimming underwater, let alone standing on my head, swinging my legs around and keep it all in time with x other people!), but are they that deserving of a medal?
Keirin is just a good way of releaving lots of drunken Japanese from their money, again, I take my hat off to those who are insane enough to want to do it. I'd rather have the Keirin binned and the Kilo back, but doubtless there's more bums on seats and thus TV money to be made from the Keirin.
It's quite surprising that BMX hasn't made it to the Olympics until now, cheap to film (No need for helicopters & motorbikes) easy for the non-cyclists to follow what's going on (No teamwork for commetators to explain) appealing to bike manufacturers to support (Good, high "Kewl" factor, with the promise of late teen/early 20's with bumfluff on their chins as a key market sector, baggy clothes, plenty of space for logos, motorbike-alike helmets, goggles & other items to be sold)
Fashions change, how long ago was the tandem sprint culled? Now, that was frightening to watch!
Deserving as all athletes are of recognition, not all events can make it to the Olympics and as for Skateboarding, well if Snowboarding Half Pipe can make it, there's no reason why Skateboarding can't!
:roll: Olympic Gold medal, a debased currency!

BeaconRuth

petecossins wrote:

I also take the point that the media have a role to play too. I'd like to cover more women's cycling but our research suggests readers - who are mainly men - aren't that keen.

It's a philosophical point that interests me greatly with respect to the coverage of women's cycling - which is the chicken and which is the egg? Readers' lack of interest or the amount of coverage? Why, for every national and world championship, is there not a completely equal amount of column-space and number of images given to the women's championship as the men's? Because the readers are not interested, or because there's so little coverage that readers have not built up their interest in the characters, the main players and their backgrounds?

Maybe an analogy could be my level of interest in BMX? I know virtually nothing about it beyond the fact that Shanaze Reade is (or was? - dunno) World Champ, but if information about it regularly appeared in magazines mixed with the road, track, time-trial and CX I think my interest would soon be kindled. (I guess BMX will appear in the media in the run up to Beijing............. which is precisely why it's been introduced.)

I digress. My point is that although the magazines and the media in general are not public service organisations, they are not simply mirroring the tastes of the readers - they do dictate it to some extent too. And my feeling is that they let women down - constantly.

This means our coverage of women's cycling does tend to be erratic, but I think that will be less so as riders like Vos, Cooke, Pendleton and others become bigger names.

Let's hope so.

Ruth

LangerDan

petecossins wrote:

At a time when the government is trying to develop role models for kids, and especially girls, to become more active and do sport, it seems crazy that the IOC and UCI are going in the opposite direction. I realise that BMX might appeal to girls as well but why does cycling have to get squeezed all the time?

But BMX is cycling. Granted its not the cycling that most here (including me) wish to watch but the same could be argued of several of the track events. I think it would be far worse if track events got bumped to allow Synchronised Dressage or Three-legged Races
In any case, while people here have been running around like their hair was on fire, it may have escaped your notice that the inaugural womens event on the Beijing BMX track was won by one of your own - Shanaze Reade - or is it only her track track results that are acceptable.

iainf72

LangerDan wrote:

But BMX is cycling. Granted its not the cycling that most here (including me) wish to watch but the same could be argued of several of the track events.

Quite. I tend to think of them as seperate sports to be honest. I enjoy watching / reading about professional mens racing in Europe. If those same fellows decide to do battle on the roads of China, yes, I'll watch that.

But tracks / cross / bmx or mountain biking would not make me sit down in front of telly.

Closed minded? For sure, but at least I'm honest about it.

petecossins

Just to point out I've got nothing against BMX at all. I don't see what real difference a couple more track events would have made to the Olympic programme, and also why it's so weighted against the women. A quick look at the Olympic schedule shows that events in the pool take place between August 9-24 without a break, whereas track cycling covers just five days. Swimming may draw more competitors from more countries, but would any miss seeing the chance for Michael Phelps go for four golds instead of seven?

With regard to coverage in the media, money is the bottom line. I'd happily provide more coverage of women's cycling if people were prepared to buy it but experience suggests cycling fans are not yet ready to do so in sufficient numbers. I admit our coverage is erratic but unlike BMX which is a relatively young sport we're battling against more than a 100 years of focus on men and changing that is not something that can be easily done. I think we're the only English-speaking road mag with a column by a top woman pro in every issue, and sometimes - in our December issue for example - we do a lot more than that on the women's side of the sport.

iainf72

I've just done some not very scientific analysis of the track calendar from 2001 and 2007/2008 on Cyclingnews

2002 - 125 events listed
2004/05 - 94 events listed
2007/08 - 83 events listed

Bit of a slide?

LangerDan

petecossins wrote:

With regard to coverage in the media, money is the bottom line. I'd happily provide more coverage of women's cycling if people were prepared to buy it but experience suggests cycling fans are not yet ready to do so in sufficient numbers. I admit our coverage is erratic but unlike BMX which is a relatively young sport we're battling against more than a 100 years of focus on men and changing that is not something that can be easily done. I think we're the only English-speaking road mag with a column by a top woman pro in every issue, and sometimes - in our December issue for example - we do a lot more than that on the women's side of the sport.

Pete,
Here's a low-cost idea for you. I think there are two issues up for discussion here - lack of coverage of womens racing and the popularity (or not) of track racing. Why not have "Track" and "Womens Racing" added to this section of the forum. If people are genuinely interested, they'll post and read. Why not have some linked interviews / articles with the like of Gollan, Cooke, Vos etc. as Stickys to get things rolling.

flattythehurdler

If women were really interested in equality, they would enter the men's races (same goes for tennis etc.)