Friction in long cables?

toasty

I mentioned this in someone elses post recently and saw a couple of others with the same bike have had the same issue. The FSR XC's cable outer for the rear derailleur goes almost a full 2 meters on my XL model, the friction within this cable is really hindering the shifting, the normal problem is the cable getting stuck when shifting down (releasing the cable). I've changed the inner to a brand new stainless steel inner, covered it in grease and even swapped the rear derailleur to an XT one I had lying around. First ride out was exactly the same, sticking on downshifts within about 5 minutes on a muddy trail.

I don't mind having to replace the outers but is this going to happen every fortnight in winter? My Stumpy HT has been faultlessly shifting for months now with very little maintainance needed. Given the fact the cable doesn't run length of the bike I can regrease that one very easily as well, it needs removing completely on the FSR XC. Would SRAM shifters work better due to pushing/pulling more cable through?

milkywhite

I have the same problems. Had a new cable fitted before a trip to Wales the other week and it was doing it again after the first ride.

Bookmarked in anticipation of useful replies!

Neily03

I'm having the same problem on my Stumpy FSR, i've ordered a Transfil black snake inner cable (teflon coated) to see if that will help..... :?

toasty

I'll be interested to hear how you get on

Sir HC

Avoid any tight bends, as this will increase the friction. On both my bikes I run full length outers (Avid straight jackets) as it keeps the much and water out, both shift perfectly.

toasty

The cable is routed along the downtube and chain stay, leaving a big loop where it connects to the rear derailleur, that's about the tightest loop in the cable sadly. Trying a new set of outers and some proper cable lube this week http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... delID=2607

Can't do much harm.

Neily03

Neily03 wrote:

I'm having the same problem on my Stumpy FSR, i've ordered a Transfil black snake inner cable (teflon coated) to see if that will help..... :?

Well that was a waste of £4.... Fitted the teflon cable and it didn't seem any better but spent about 30mins try to adjust the tension to see if i could get it to work until it jammed completely. It was then a two hand job to pull the cable out to find the teflon coating peeling back in two places causing the jam. :evil: So i refitted my old cable and greased it all the way and and hey presto its work fine...... for now....

alfablue

Toasty wrote:

I
I don't mind having to replace the outers but is this going to happen every fortnight in winter?

I fitted Transfil Mudlovers last year to resolve the problem and they have been entirely maintenance free for the whole year (about 3500 miles). They have a sheath around the inner cable that extends continuously from within the shifter housing to 5mm from the cable bolt on the rear mech, no crud or water can get in. I thoroughly recommend them, and the price is little more than buying regular inners and outers, though they will probably save money and hassle in the long run.

toasty

Replacement cheapo XT outer and Cablemagic lube arrived today, I'll give it a spin tonight. Seen quite a few good reviews about the lube so I'm quietly positive.

I'm sure I'll resort to an expensive cableset in the end if this doesn't work, I've seen as many negative reviews as I have positive for all the transfil sets and avid flak jackets though.

It's a shame they don't make Rollamajigs or Cog Hogs anyway, that loop by the derailleur is never going to be pretty. I saw a cheapo ripoff on ebay, V-Dapter or something? Don't seem to see any mention of these anymore

ratty2k

Flying snakes!!
Fitted them to my Trek, no shifting issues at all now, no shit can get into the cables. Came recommended to me by Fozzybear, have to say he was/ is right!

Neily03

Flying snakes are all good but you only get 2metres of outer in a pack which is no good if you're using full outers as you you can only do one then....

ratty2k

Fair comment, but if you can do a full length outer on your bike, there's simply no need for flying snakes to be used. I buy the Shimano cable by the metre from the LBS and, its great stuff- not expensive either. The mechanic there says its XTR quality and come pre greased.

toasty

The FSR XC's cable outer for the rear derailleur goes almost a full 2 meters on my XL model, the friction within this cable is really hindering the shifting

Flying snakes!!

If you can do a full length outer on your bike, there's simply no need for flying snakes to be used.

hmm, ty :P The problem is the friction caused by 2 full meters of cable, going around bizarre routing around the bottom of the frame. I've bought a shimano outer to try tonight. Seems odd lots of people with similar bikes have the issue.

ratty2k

If the cable gets a bit shitty, it'll soon start playing silly buggers with the shifting. New cables should sort it its not the friction, new cables have barely any [friction] its only ever affected me when things get dirty- the flying snakes will effectively give you a full length of outer cable. On my Trek (fitted with flappy paddle XT DCL's0 I couldn't change on the front ring there was so much friction, flying snakes, and its like a new bike!

skyliner

The dirt ingress point on those setups is at the mech barrel adjuster where the tightest loop of outer is to be found.
If you can't find an Avid rollamajig, (which is likely because they've stopped making them) use a V brake noodle to take up the loop. This will give you a lot more room for crud clearance (1.6mm not 1.2mm), and if you cut down the teflon sleeve, even more. It also provides a "break point" for the cable if the mech is knocked, and won't push the outer out of it's ferrule, or splay the filaments on the next shift.

I have about 20 happy customers on this setup at Afan, even in our gritty soil conditions.

The other option is to get a Shadow mech. As the cable is routed better on these, and doesn't allow so much crud into the cable. Plus they're quieter, and slick shifting.

toasty

Well the shimano outer + stainless inner + cablemagic lube seems to be very smooth, smoother than it's ever been before. I've got a ~40 mile country road + bridleway ride coming up tomorrow though (weather permitting), should be a good test It didn't last that long last time I changed the inner.

Failing that I'll have to try something else next week, possible a cog hog type device. Wish these massive companies would test things like this, seems odd a few people with the same bike have the exact same issue, my old 2001 Specialized Enduro routing was fine as is my Stumpy HT (although it does go under the bottom bracket uncovered which is a bit dodgy).

ratty2k

On yer bike, are they full length outhers or the little bits and stops on the frame? If they are the bits of outer, then Flying Snakes will cure all ills! You obviously have sorted it for the time being- hope it stays good for ya! Theres nowt worse than having dodgy shifting while out for a ride, well there is..... but its still damn annoying!

SDK2007

I also have a FSR XC (Comp) XL and although my gears have worked mostly fine for 8 months of riding they now aren't. Like the original poster - On downshift the cable sticks causing the shifter to go slack.

I replaced the cable a few weeks ago but the new outer cable wasn’t long enough so had to keep the standard one that came with the bike left on.

Can anyone recommend a good, long outer cable please ?

skyliner

For outer cable, you can't go far wrong with Shimano SP41 (XTR). And most Shimano service centres will carry it in 10M lengths for making up cable sets. You could buy a section cut to length for about £2 plus some ferrules @60p each

timberjack

I think the problem has nothing to do with the cables it is the sram shifters, i have a stumpy comp07 with sram x7 shifters and i have had this problem front and back a few times, it is muck getting into the shifters through the hole on the shifter where you put the cable through, there is meant to be rubber grommits in there but mine are missing. The first time i took my shifter's to bits i took the 4 small screws out and sprayed inside[watch out for the spring when you take the cover off] with gt 85 and this cured it but i have since had to totally strip both down to get them to work properly, it was a nightmare trying to put them back together but after a couple of hours i had them working perfectly but its xt for me when i save some cash

skyliner

I've seen that on older X9 and current X7 (the same shifters rebranded) on our testbike fleet at Afan in the gritty soil here.
Basically, once it gets to a point where the coating has worn off the sliding plates inside the shifter, the smallest amount of grit will stop them working properly, and it's constant servicing every couple of weeks to keep them sweet from there on I'm afraid.
Wax chainlube can help to keep them working for a bit longer, but eventually, it just gets to be a pain servicing them constantly. We went the XT route on our testbikes too.

SDK2007

timberjack wrote:

I think the problem has nothing to do with the cables it is the sram shifters

The FSR XC uses Shimano shifters

toasty

The new XT cable outers, stainless steel inners and cablemagic lube are performing very, very well so far. Slicker than it was even when brand new. The 40 mile ride was a bit harsh, a lot of the ground was very, very muddy, some thin, some like clay. I had a literal ping pong sized ball of mud form in between the front derailleur and frame at one point.

I bought the Shimano XT cabling, per meter from chain reaction.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=7770

2 meters was enough, cut to the exact same length as before. Along with the lube.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=2607

I went for a ride the following day as well and the shifting was still perfect. I'll see how it fairs over the future, even if I have to change it once a month I'd happily do it to keep the shifting like this.


Edit: Oh and it's definitely not the shifters, they're really nicely sealed shimano jobbies. Even when not on the bike sliding the inner cable in the old outers was fairly tight, I'm not suprised the derailleur spring has such a hard time pulling it.

timberjack

i went to kirroughree yeterday and after a mile my rear shifter started playing up so thats it i have ordered Xt to put on, what skyliner says is true when i have had the shifters to bits the plate's that rub together are all scored and i nevea r do more than 2 rides without problems

SDK2007

I bought 2 meters of Shimano XTR outer cable on Saturday, a new gear cable and it's now shifting sweetly again

toasty

I wonder if they just use particularly crap outers. It seems to be the same fix for everyone :?