We cyclists have a problem

spasypaddy

Cycling to work today i was thinking about a thread i read in the commuting section last night about someone requesting that all cyclists go either down the inside or down the outside of cars.

The problem is that cyclists dont have a set way of doing things, there is the correct way and the correct way. Some things are safer some are not. For example - i wont over or undertake a bus or HGV and stay well back where they can see me in the mirrors, plenty of other cyclists would just zoom on pass.

Another example is riding/road position, not everyone has read cyclecraft (i haven't). Some people stick to the kerb like glue (these tend to be inexperienced/slow cyclists) others stick out right down the middle of the road, personally i go for a position halfway between the kerb and the middle of the lane as this is where i feel comfortable.

The problem manifests when as we all do different things cars can't anticipate what we are going to do, just like it is hard to anticipate what a learner driver is going to do as they are inexperienced and unsure.

Just recently the highway code has been adapted to give us even more flexibility (not having to use given cycle paths) and this is a good thing for us but it allows more flexibility for us and less knowledge for the drivers.

I feel we need to address this problem by coming up with a way that we all do the same thing and it gets taught to cyclists and in a similar fashion to the highway code stick to it due to the fact that it should make riding on the road safer.

nicklouse

Strange i was thinking the same thing.

well have been for a while after reading a post about a cyclist who could not get past a Learner driver as the car was driving in the gutter and he could not undertake!

It is not that i often ride on a road or have any need to or even come across cyclist on the road, got to love seperate cycle routes, but i do know how the road users are going to behave as we are all using the same rules.

i will also add i have only driven in London a couple of times and would not really like to think about cycling there.

spasypaddy

well have been for a while after reading a post about a cyclist who could not get past a Learner driver as the car was driving in the gutter and he could not undertake!

i think that was me :oops:

im glad someone agrees though i normally get shot down when i start making what i think are valid points!

RufusA

nicklouse wrote:

It is not that i often ride on a road or have any need to or even come across cyclist on the road, got to love seperate cycle routes, but i do know how the road users are going to behave as we are all using the same rules.

Even seperate cycle routes can be a problem. There's a stretch of hill near me which has a parallel cycle path (segregated and shared with peds). I often choose to use this route as I'm not fast uphill and the road is narrow, 50 limit and often used by HGVs. If meeting a cyclist coming in the opposite direction on the path it's 50/50 as to whether they'll attempt to pass on the left or right.

The number of times I've nearly come a cropper when moving to the left on the downhill only to discover the uphill rider has "kindly" decided he'll move off the cyclepath to the right. Aiming for a head-on and braking hard with wheels on the white line in wet is not usually a nice experience.

AAAGGGHH - there are even arrows on the path to show which side cyclists should pass on! If cyclists can't play nicely together on a clearly marked path, what hope is there for when playing with higher stakes on the road?

Rufus.

whome

I don't think it's sensible to make everyone do the same thing as every situation is different, and just as other road users will behave differently in similar situation cyclists have the same but probably greater discrepancies due to experience, attitude etc.

It would make sense to all learn cyclecraft and pass Bikeability level 3 or whatever it is. But I would not see that as a compulsory thing

boncey

spasypaddy wrote:

I feel we need to address this problem by coming up with a way that we all do the same thing and it gets taught to cyclists and in a similar fashion to the highway code stick to it due to the fact that it should make riding on the road safer.

I think that's what Cyclecraft and Bikeability are already doing.

I am fairly new to cycling and cycle on the roads in London (not the very busy ones though).
I really don't feel comfortable passing queues of traffic on the left (it's the lack of space to manouvere and fear of car doors opening) so I always pass on the right at least a metre from the cars.
This of course puts me in the oncoming lane so I can only do it if there isn't any oncoming traffic.
If both lanes are full I tend to get off and push.

mea00csf

Yes but the "unsure of what cyclists might do" is probably a good thing

Look what happens at junctions that have traffic lights that are out. Everyone slows donw, gives plenty of room and suddenly becomes far more observant.

And by having the options you can choose whatever is safest for that particular situation

helz

spasypaddy wrote:

well have been for a while after reading a post about a cyclist who could not get past a Learner driver as the car was driving in the gutter and he could not undertake!

i think that was me :oops:

im glad someone agrees though i normally get shot down when i start making what i think are valid points!

I don't think anyone has said they agree with your complaint about the learner driver I'm afraid spasy.

spasypaddy

helz wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

well have been for a while after reading a post about a cyclist who could not get past a Learner driver as the car was driving in the gutter and he could not undertake!

i think that was me :oops:

im glad someone agrees though i normally get shot down when i start making what i think are valid points!

I don't think anyone has said they agree with your complaint about the learner driver I'm afraid spasy.

maybe you should read the thread before you make a judgement like that:
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12544060
and also i was saying i was glad someone agreed with my thoughts IN THIS THREAD funny how no-one else read that wrong...

L60N

I think that's what Cyclecraft and Bikeability are already doing.

Quite correct, and the problem lies not in a lack of "rules" per say. Its a lack of enforcement.

Im not advocating enforcement at all, but if there were a set of rules we as cyclists had to abide by and were subject to be governed by, then and only then would you begin to see a degree in uniformity to how we cycle.

Sad but true

Leon

spen666

We cyclsts have a problem

Is it with spelling the word "cyclists"?

Eat My Dust

mea00csf wrote:

Look what happens at junctions that have traffic lights that are out. Everyone slows donw, gives plenty of room and suddenly becomes far more observant.

LOL, I've experienced this as well. Take the lights away and all the drivers suddenly become very obliging and courteous towards cyclists!!

Harry Hill

The problem is, as mentioned above, it's not an exact science.

I "usually" ride say 30cm from the kerb, which works fine for everyone concerned. Sometimes though, after a road has been resurfaced for instance, the drains are suddenly too deep to ride over so I have to move out or risk damaging a wheel.

Sometimes when there's a long que at a roudabout I can ride up the inside slowly and quite safely, other times one car may be too close to the kerb so that I have to either stop and wait, or go around the RHS, or get off and go along the pavement to pass the car and then get back on again.

Every situation is different.

HH

nwallace

L60N wrote:

Im not advocating enforcement at all, but if there were a set of rules we as cyclists had to abide by and were subject to be governed by, then and only then would you begin to see a degree in uniformity to how we cycle.

Last time I checked the Highway code applies to all road users including Pedestrians. While most of the rules it contains aren't set in law the rules within are the rules of the road and may be used to determine a persons understanding of the rules of the road. These rules include do not undertake.

Rule 163 which applies to all road users covers overtaking (In the Using the road section)
"# only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so"
"# stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left"

And Rule 160 says
"Keep Left" Amongst other things.

I have to hold my hands up to breaking both of these!
163 because of filtering
160 because I move over as if I was walking on shared use paths which means i sometimes want people on my left rather than right (being partly left sided and all)

Hotblack Desiato

spasypaddy wrote:

We cyclists have a problem

I don't have a problem in the slightest. I ride in what I consider to be an appropriate manner depending on many variables including, but not restricted to:

1. Time of day
2. Volume of traffic
3. Weather conditions
4. Mood
5. Physical condition
6. Metallica or Lou Reed on the iPod

spasypaddy wrote:

I feel we need to address this problem by coming up with a way that we all do the same thing and it gets taught to cyclists and in a similar fashion to the highway code stick to it due to the fact that it should make riding on the road safer.

I have no desire to 'do he same thing' as all other cyclists. The freedom of individuality is one of the things I enjoy the most while out on my bike.

I won't to be told how to ride.

Equally, I don't think it's my place to tell anyone else how to ride.

.

Massimo

You've hit the nail on the head there matey, especially on the level of fitness. The difference between a 'serious' cyclist who covers 150+ miles a week and some random bloke on a bike tootling 2 miles to and from work on something that weighs as much as a small family car is massive. That's got be be a huge factor on how they behave on the road.

Nigel-YZ1

Unfortunately I'm a cynic. I'm sure we'll see a future where government will start meddling. There's so much petty interference 'for our own safety' even now in other areas that can only get worse.

There will of course be plenty of excuses to justify it, there are some real silly arses about. The opinion of the vast majority that make their own way without incident will not matter.

Probably starts with Ken Livingstone's number plates perhaps? How about compulsory insurance? CBT style testing? Oh, and of course we're a great source of tax revenue just waiting to be milked.

Of course once the tests are passed, people can do what they please like half the drivers round here.