Widening rear stays, can it be done safely who can do it

tonyf34

Hey, hope someone out there can help. I've recently accquired a 70's/early 80's Carlton touring/audaxframe that has 126 spacing.
It looks like it has been resprayed & re-enamelled previously as none of the original transfers are present. I'm not 100% sure if it's a 531ST but it is exactly the same weight/tube size as my British Eagle Touristique of same frame size.
a) Can it be widened to fit a modern wheelset,
b) Who can do it (locally to me in North Herts)
c) Roughly how much would it cost.
I'd rather not sell it as I've been looking for a great frame for ages.
thanks Muchly
Tony

McBain_v1

Um, my 1983 531c frame has the same problem. I've got an 8-speed on the back that necessitates pulling the rear forks apart by about 2mm either side to get the wheel back on. So far, no cracking or problems (wonderful stuff is steel).

Pirahna

There is no magic tool to do this, so why not do it yourself?

I'd use a Black and Decker Workmate to hold the frame as the wooden vice won't damage the paint. Clamp the frame by the bottom bracket, measure across the frame ends and move one side out by half the distance. Move the other side out by the remainder and job done.

Fab Foodie

Hi

My LBS did mine for a small charge (not sure exactly how much cos they did some other bits and bobs), funnily enough it was a BE Touristique which was spread a tad 3mm to enable wheels with MTB hubs or road hubs to work.

BTW, I rescued the Touristique as an Audax bike type project, what are they like?

tonyf34

Fab Foodie wrote:

Hi

My LBS did mine for a small charge (not sure exactly how much cos they did some other bits and bobs), funnily enough it was a BE Touristique which was spread a tad 3mm to enable wheels with MTB hubs or road hubs to work.

BTW, I rescued the Touristique as an Audax bike type project, what are they like?

My BE was a 130 already weirdly, it was great to ride, very comfy and I couldn't fault the build quality. I just recently sold it on ebay as it was a bit small for me otherwise it would have been a keeper. Was your LBS run by old boys or newer blood, rather not leve it in the hands of someone whose only experience is with modern bikes.
As for using a B&D bench, don't have one & I'd rather not do it myself TBH

Fab Foodie

tonyf34 wrote:

Fab Foodie wrote:

Hi

My LBS did mine for a small charge (not sure exactly how much cos they did some other bits and bobs), funnily enough it was a BE Touristique which was spread a tad 3mm to enable wheels with MTB hubs or road hubs to work.

BTW, I rescued the Touristique as an Audax bike type project, what are they like?

My BE was a 130 already weirdly, it was great to ride, very comfy and I couldn't fault the build quality. I just recently sold it on ebay as it was a bit small for me otherwise it would have been a keeper. Was your LBS run by old boys or newer blood, rather not leve it in the hands of someone whose only experience is with modern bikes.
As for using a B&D bench, don't have one & I'd rather not do it myself TBH

Hi
Yes my BE is 130 mm but will now take 135 MTB hubs as well as 130s. It was a bit of an old-boys shop to be honest with a good old fashioned workshop. There must be somebody nearby.

Phil Russell

Good advice, but here's how to do it. I have done this myself a few times but cannot be held responsible for your efforts:

Get some threaded bar ... about a foot length in about 6 or 8 mm diameter will do. Plus a couple of nuts and big washers ...

Screw nuts on opposite ends of the bar so that they fit inside your dropouts. Add washers on nuts. With bar in place slowly wind one nut out to spread the dropouts. To increase OLD from 126 to 130 you will need to go considerable beyond the 130 mark ... keep going and relaxing the nut to measure where you are. Slowly but surely is the key. You may need to go to about 150mm to achieve a cold set of 130mm .. just take it easy and it should work.

I think this is far better and easier to control than using bits of wood etc as levers.

Cheers, Phil

alan_sherman

I have 2 old steel frames at 126mm spacing. i just pull the dropouts apart slightly when putting the rear whel in. It is no aggro, and so I've never bothered with trying to bend the frame in a permanent way.

aracer

Problem with your method, Phil is that you can end up pulling one side out more than the other, and so messing up the alignment - something which isn't a problem if you do each side individually.

simbil1

All of these are probably fine, but 2 things concern me a bit. To permanently increase the spacing, you need to go beyond the elastic limit of the stays and plastically deform them to make the permanent change. This causes the steel to change a bit, it becomes harder and less flexible. Probably not a big deal but may lead to earlier fatigue and change the feel of the frame a little.
The other issue is the welded joints - stressing them does not sound like a good idea. The areas where the stays meet the frame should probably be supported before the stays are pulled apart.
If there is enough elastic give in the stays, Alan's method seems the best to me.

tonyf34

thanks for the advice, I think I'll go take it to a bike shop. I'm not the DIY type of person for frames & as mentioned pulling apart the stays could induce problems further down.
thanks
Big T

Pirahna

tonyf34 wrote:

thanks for the advice, I think I'll go take it to a bike shop. I'm not the DIY type of person for frames & as mentioned pulling apart the stays could induce problems further down.
thanks
Big T

What do you think the bike shop will do apart from pull the stays apart?

alan_sherman

"pulling apart the stays could induce problems further down". Like what? If the steel is still within the elastic deformation range then there is no material change. 2mm each side of the wheel is easily within the elastic deformation range.

I had a degree in materials science so I'm very confortable stating this.

redddraggon

alan sherman wrote:

I had a degree in materials science so I'm very confortable stating this.

Where did you do it?

alfablue

Sheldon Brown has a good page on this; he says

Should You Try This?
This job is one that isn't for everybody, but it's not rocket science either. Many shops are reluctant to undertake this sort of operation, either because of fear of liability or because they want to sell you new bike. Although it seems fairly alarming to deliberately bend your frame, it is really not that cataclismic an operation, and can be very worthwhile if it allows you to keep riding an old friend, with the advantages of a modern drivetrain.

scherrit

This was common practice when the move to 130mm (and 126 before that according to my local bike shop sage where I grew up) made lots of people keen the re-space their steel steeds to the new std. I like Phil's method as it's pretty controlled.... it's always resulted in an aligned frame when I've done it. The mechanical charatersitics of the left stays are going to be very close to those of the right stay after all.

A quick and easy check would be to run a cord from the left rear dropout around the head tube and back to the right rear drop out. Then measure the gap to the seat tube from each cord. The bloody minded will argue that there is a tiny chance that the front triangle had a historical twist and hence the frame would look straight but that way lies madness....

a spot of cold setting to the dropouts to get them parallell and job done!

All the above is for steel frames...... plastic just doesn't work the same way!