Are pedal reflectors compulsory at night?

dazzawazza
dazzawazza Posts: 462
edited October 2007 in Commuting chat
I'm about to buy some SPD M424 pedals and I don't think they come with reflectors.
Are pedal reflectors compulsory on the road at night? I usually have two flashing lights at the back, one at the front and loads of hi vis gear and other reflectors.
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Comments

  • When a bike shop sels a complete bike I think the law requires that pedal reflectors are fitted. I don't think that you are required by law to keep them, otherwise the vast majority of "serious" cyclists who use SPD/LOOK/Time/egg beaters etc would be breaking the law. Never heard of anyone being prosecuted for no pedal reflectors. Having said that, they can be quite effective in getting you seen by dozy motorists.
    George
  • BentMikey
    BentMikey Posts: 4,895
    Yes they are, but many cleated pedal systems don't have them. Very little point having them on my recumbent, for example, as only martians and ants are likely to see any reflection from them.
  • BentMikey wrote:
    Very little point having them on my recumbent, for example, as only martians and ants are likely to see any reflection from them.


    Arf - though using a bit of a specious reasoning, I bet you've never been hit by a martian or an ant at night?!
  • Pedal reflectors are required. In the darkness it is sometimes difficult to work out what the vehicle is in front, but if a motorist see orange strips going up and down (assuming you're pedalling) then he/she will realise you're a cyclist, as no other form of transport shows this kind of movement.

    I changed my pedals to 'winter' pedals with reflectors as I'm a big girly bloke and don't want to die. And, if I ever get involved in a lawsuit, having reflectors on pedals gives the prosecution one less piece of ammunition.
  • My old bike didn't have them and I rode past plenty of police at night without being stopped. I do think they are handy though (moving reflective bits can't hurt!) and I've got them on the new bike.
  • Would stick-on reflective strips stuck to the plastic cage part of the pedal be enough to make it legal?
    I'm not worried about being stopped, but if I was involved in an accident and it went to court, not having pedal reflectors could become an issue.
  • dazzawazza wrote:
    Would stick-on reflective strips stuck to the plastic cage part of the pedal be enough to make it legal?
    I'm not worried about being stopped, but if I was involved in an accident and it went to court, not having pedal reflectors could become an issue.

    There was another thread on these lines (can't find it alas) where it was pointed out that any reflectors have to meet BS standards and therefore technically stuck on strips would not suffice. But the point was also made that if you've evidently everything within reason to make yourself seen then you should be OK in court.
  • dondare
    dondare Posts: 2,113
    The law requires pedal reflectors (two per pedal, and marked with the correct BS standard markings) to be fitted on any bike used after lighting up time. (Unlike a bell which has to be sold with the bike but can be taken off by the user.)
    The only exception is for bikes manfactured before October 1985.
    That's me alright then. Running an old bike has it's advantages.
    This post contains traces of nuts.
  • I have traveled in cars obviously although I dont own one and I have noticed that pedal reflectors are effective in the car headlights at night.I always take an interest in cyclists when traveling in these steel boxes.

    Oh I dont have any as I use SPD's.
  • None on my eggbeater pedals, but my shoes have reflective heels.
    Anyone seen my bearings?
  • Gambatte
    Gambatte Posts: 1,453
    Oh I dont have any as I use SPD's.

    They're available for spds
  • homercles wrote:
    dazzawazza wrote:
    that any reflectors have to meet BS standards and therefore technically stuck on strips would not suffice.

    With British standards and the law a product has to meet or exceed the British standard. If a peddle reflector was thought to be a reason for an accident then the police would send it if for testing to see how efficient it was, providing it meet with at least the BS then it would not be mentioned in court.

    M3 retro-reflective tape exceeds both the BS and the european standard and has passed both BS and ES so there is no reason why you could not use orange M3 tape you would be covered by law.
    No 1 fan in the jonesy124 Fan Club
  • Gambatte wrote:
    They're available for spds

    If so, what site can I order some that are compatible with M424s?
  • Gambatte
    Gambatte Posts: 1,453
    Not sure, just remember an article a few months ago.

    They were talking about bikes being sold with SPDs (specifically) and other cleat systems and saying about how they were available, but not many people know because the bike shops just ignore them and don't fit them.

    I've got actual SPDs on the MTB.

    The roady/commuter has got some Wellgo SPD copies, from Decathlon. These came with reflectors. Just thinking of fitting them.....
  • Gambatte
    Gambatte Posts: 1,453
    Another 'clip' from the CTC site:

    Reflectors are indeed obligatory at night, on the front and rear of every pedal, on all types of pedal cycle used on public roads, except those older than October 1985. Unfortunately the cycle trade (and many otherwise well-informed cyclists) prefer to ignore this inconvenient fact. So a lot of clipless pedals are imported without any means of using them legally at night.
    To their joint credit, Shimano offer add-on reflectors for almost all of their pedals (except the most expensive) and Madison import them – although many shops don’t even try to sell them. Reflectors for double-sided (mountain-bike) SPDs come as part of a plastic platform that clips into one binding, providing instead a tread surface for normal shoes. Similar reflector platforms are available for some other brands of mountain-bike pedal (VP for example) and this is the one kind of clipless reflector accessory you will find in bike shops. Unfortunately they make the pedals single-sided and do not sufficiently counterweight them to keep the vacant binding on top. And as pedalling surfaces, these platforms leave much to be desired. To attach and detach them without burring the plastic it’s best to slacken off the binding tension, but then it must be cranked up to maximum to stop the insert squirming around. A better idea, if you’re keen to be legal and often ride at night, or in normal shoes, is to fit a dual-purpose pedal such as the Shimano PD-M324, which is made with a binding on one side and a normal quill on the other, to which ordinary pedal reflectors can be bolted.

    Or consider the type of pedal that has “pop-up bindings” inside a large alloy or plastic cage: PD-M646, M545 or M424 in Shimano’s current range. These are double-sided for either cleated or normal shoes and can be fitted with reflectors that do not impede either use. These pedals are a bit heavy and chunky, but seem to combine all functions without compromising performance. Also the surrounding cage provides the lateral support that is missing from compact clipless pedals, but may be needed by big-footed riders and users of lighter-soled touring shoes. Surprisingly the finest of Shimano’s pop-ups, although billed as an off-road racing/BMX pedal, provides the simplest and neatest legal solution, as it comes complete with reflectors that can be bolted directly to its replaceable end-plates. The two cheaper models require additional outer reflector cages (SM-PD40), which are neither included nor elegant, but apparently work.

    Forget about single-sided so-called road pedals. There’s nothing about riding on road the makes them a better idea. They merely look pretty and save a few grams to appease roadie hang-ups over aesthetics, aerodynamics and weight. And their reflector accessories, if available, are a fig leaf. They hang off the bottom but do not counterweight the pedal, so this side is just as likely to be uppermost when you stamp away from the traffic lights – to the sound of splintering plastic!

    Whilst some cycling shoes do have reflective material on the heel, UK traffic law specifies the pedal, the colour and British or International Standard markings that guarantee a level of reflector performance that cannot, to my knowledge, be met by such small areas of this material. Besides: front pedal reflectors are also required. It is possible that ankle bands of Reflexite etc. might achieve the necessary performance and CTC has been campaigning for two decades for a change in the law. However I am a lone voice – since most cycle traders and the cyclists affected by this issue remain “in denial”. With the evenings becoming darker, now is a good time to write to your MP.
  • Gambatte wrote:
    Oh I dont have any as I use SPD's.

    They're available for spds

    Plod wont pull you up for not using them though. :oops:
  • Gambatte
    Gambatte Posts: 1,453
    Gambatte wrote:
    Oh I dont have any as I use SPD's.

    They're available for spds

    Plod wont pull you up for not using them though. :oops:

    True, just figured (with the original statement) that you thought using SPDs meant you couldn't use reflectors
  • fossyant
    fossyant Posts: 2,549
    Gambatte wrote:
    Another 'clip' from the CTC site:

    Forget about single-sided so-called road pedals. There’s nothing about riding on road the makes them a better idea. They merely look pretty and save a few grams to appease roadie hang-ups over aesthetics, aerodynamics and weight.

    Yep and....................

    Aesthetics No 1 on a road bike............ :D

    But..............my commuter has SPD's and no BS reflectors, although:-

    2 x BLT Front/Rear lamps - 3w front 2.4w rear (both halogen)
    Cateye front and rear LEDS
    Plus reflective red tape on rear stays & mudguards, and white ref. tape on front forks

    None of it BS standard but all much better than it.....blooming crazy !
  • Think I'm going to order the 454s anyway. I've got several sets of old pedals which I could remove the reflectors and attempt to attach them to the cage of the 454s.
    If it works then good, otherwise I'll just attach some reflective tape.
    I'm sure a couple of flashing led lights and loads of hi-vis and reflective tape is enough for a cager to recognise me as a cyclist without the need for pedal reflectors as well.
  • fossyant wrote:
    Gambatte wrote:
    None of it BS standard but all much better than it.....blooming crazy !

    I suggest your tape could well have a BS but there is no law saying that something that has passed BS has to carry the BS mark.

    BS is also designed as the minimum standard many BS passed products exceed the BS. Retro-reflective tape that meets BS has a much higher reflectivity and visible distance than the standard set for cycle, and car reflectors so by law this is seen as exceeding the standard so is acceptable.
    No 1 fan in the jonesy124 Fan Club
  • richk
    richk Posts: 564
    I've recently found some spd (compatible) pedals that do come with reflectors (although not shown in the pic below). They were from Decathlon see here: http://www.decathlon.co.uk/EN/Product_arborescence/cycle-and-rolle/spare-parts/pedals/mb-classic-peda/product_2906618/index.html

    Still searching for the reflectors for my 545s on my mountain bike (the one I use after dark). Anybody know any where that actually sells them? Alternatively, what is this reflective tape thats being mentioned above?
    There is no secret ingredient...
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    I got reflectors with my 105 spd-sl pedals, didn't anyone else get them?

    ..........I haven't attached them though.
    I like bikes...

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  • Gambatte
    Gambatte Posts: 1,453
    RichK wrote:
    I've recently found some spd (compatible) pedals that do come with reflectors (although not shown in the pic below). They were from Decathlon see here: http://www.decathlon.co.uk/EN/Product_arborescence/cycle-and-rolle/spare-parts/pedals/mb-classic-peda/product_2906618/index.html

    The same ones I use on the commuter on a daily basis. Had no probs with them.
  • I find the cars get closer in the morning than the evening. I wouldnt worry too much.
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    I've put the reflectors onto my 105 pedals now. Easy to fit.
    I like bikes...

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  • mo\'c
    mo\'c Posts: 17
    "Thank you for your enquiry to the Road Safety section of this Department. I am sorry about the delay in replying to you.
    The use of shoes with reflectors in the heels or reflective material on your ankles when riding a bike which has clipless pedals does meet the spirit of the law. While we can not advise about the enforcement of the law because that is a matter for the police, it is unlikely that the police will take any enforcement action if you have made an effort to comply with the Regulations."

    So spirit of the law is that Respro type reflectors ok....assume therefore that reflective shoes etc etc should be fine too :?
    it never gets any easier...I'm supposed to just get faster...still waiting though
  • Gambatte
    Gambatte Posts: 1,453
    Gambatte wrote:
    RichK wrote:
    I've recently found some spd (compatible) pedals that do come with reflectors (although not shown in the pic below). They were from Decathlon see here: http://www.decathlon.co.uk/EN/Product_arborescence/cycle-and-rolle/spare-parts/pedals/mb-classic-peda/product_2906618/index.html

    The same ones I use on the commuter on a daily basis. Had no probs with them.

    Decided to actually fit the reflectors this week.

    Only managed to commute 2 days this week (hate it when the kids go back to c
    school and fetch all the new virus' [virii?] home). So the bike did 60 miles.

    Within this distance they've been repositioned 'cos they were going to fall off loads of times. They've been picked up off the road several times. Handed back to me twice.

    On the last leg of the commute, if they fell off, they fell off. I got home with 2 still attached. They're now in the bin.

    Good pedals, crap reflectors
  • prj45
    prj45 Posts: 2,208
    You're breaking the law if you don't have pedal reflectors.

    60
    At night your cycle MUST have white front and red rear lights lit. It MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors, if manufactured after 1/10/85). White front reflectors and spoke reflectors will also help you to be seen. Flashing lights are permitted but it is recommended that cyclists who are riding in areas without street lighting use a steady front lamp.

    [Law RVLR regs 13, 18 & 24)]