Are peds going militant??

homercles

In the last 10 days I've had two incidents with pedestrians that have really annoyed me.

1) Cycling across a pelican crossing (lights green) when traffic slows to a halt, leaving me stranded in the middle of the crossing as the lights go red. Peds start crossing in droves and filing around me and all of a sudden one guy boots the back of my bike and shouts at me to get out of the way. Now I'm a bit protective of the steed so gave him a fair earful and watched him scurry away into the masses, and to be fair one woman did point out to him that I had been stranded when the lights changed, but I hope he won't be booting anyone's rear wheel again. Thankfully no damage done.

2) Last night riding home and coming very slowly (c.8mph) to a junction where I like to sit at the stop line on the other side of the ped crossing, to give myself a start for road position ahead of the traffic when the lights change, I coast to the light as it turns red. The solitary ped crossing steps out and looks right at me, I look back and it's clear we've seen each other, I continue to coast towards the crossing (around 5-6 metres away now).

Then he stops right in the middle of my line, confronts me (actively tries to be in my way by moving side to side) and tells me it's a red light, can't you see etc etc when it's clear I've seen him, seen the light (at this stage I'm barely above walking pace) and am fully aware of what I'm doing/ am taking no risks with anyone's safety. And yes, letter of the law, blah blah, but there's no way this was in anyway a risk.

Now while it's one thing to whizz across a crossing without looking, slowing etc I think it's totally different if you're manoeuvring (slowly) to establish position for setting off from the signal, and on a crossing where if the guy hadn't stood still I would never have been anywhere near him (and was still able to stop easily and under perfect control when he did become unpredictable).

I often feel like the one thing that provides safety on a bike is being able to give yourself that 5-10m start at a junction so you can pick your line as you move off without fear of being mown down. Seems like peds don't give a sh** one way or the other and now they're dishing out grief for it!

Anyone else had confrontations with militant peds lately? The Freewheel could be fun this weekend!

BentMikey

homercles wrote:

I often feel like the one thing that provides safety on a bike is being able to give yourself that 5-10m start at a junction so you can pick your line as you move off without fear of being mown down.

This bit is wrong. You're usually far safer sat behind the first or second car in the queue, in the middle of the lane. It's advice in cyclecraft, and it's something that works very well in practice, because the drivers behind you don't feel the same need to overtake as when the road is clear in front of you. It's also safe because you go through the junction in the middle of your lane instead of dangerously near the edge.

You were in the wrong on incident number 1: See rule 168 in the highway code.

"168: In queuing traffic, you should keep the crossing clear."

You were also in the wrong in incident no. 2, but you already know that. See rules 151, 152, and 154.

I can't blame any of the pedestrians for acting that way towards you. I might well have done the same. We cyclists are sick of the behaviour of some bad car drivers, why shouldn't pedestrians feel the same way towards cyclists? This sort of thing is exactly why it's wrong to jump red lights.

Sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear, but if it were me I'd rather know I was in the wrong.

homercles

BentMikey wrote:

homercles wrote:

I often feel like the one thing that provides safety on a bike is being able to give yourself that 5-10m start at a junction so you can pick your line as you move off without fear of being mown down.

This bit is wrong. You're usually far safer sat behind the first or second car in the queue, in the middle of the lane. It's advice in cyclecraft, and it's something that works very well in practice, because the drivers behind you don't feel the same need to overtake as when the road is clear in front of you. It's also safe because you go through the junction in the middle of your lane instead of dangerously near the edge.

...

Sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear, but if it were me I'd rather know I was in the wrong.

I take your point on following the first car but as I say in my post, I 'feel' a lot safer and as I do take the middle of the lane from up front avoid leaving myself open to being cut up as you suggest. Cyclecraft is all well good but I also think doing what gives you confidence (obviously with respect for other road users etc) is one of the safest things you can do. But cheers for the advice: I'll experiment and see what I reckon.

As for the business about being stuck on a crossing, I was pretty unlucky here as the traffic was moving freely as I got there but then snarled up as bus pulled out leaving me stranded. No reason for bike kicking I think you should agree, especially as in my eyes this basically equates to a physical attack on me. If I was a pedestrian who fell in front of this guy would he start kicking my prostrate form on the floor? I wouldn't imagine so, though who knows with some of these jokers.

BentMikey

Yup, the ped shouldn't have kicked your bike, though it was fine for him to berate you. I've been caught out on a crossing this way myself, oops!!!

secretsam

Shock horror - I agree with BentMikey! Working in central London I'm often nearly killed by cyclists on crossings and have become quite militant about it.

But I don't kick bikes.

I thought this post was going to be about pedestrians stepping out, which happens ALL THE TIME :evil: :evil: :evil:

Jon G

homercles wrote:

two incidents with pedestrians that have really annoyed me.

Last night riding home and coming slowly (c.8mph) to a junction where I like to sit at the stop line on the other side of the ped crossing,

What "stop line on the other side of the ped. crossing"? There will only be one stop line, and it will be before the ped. crossing?

to give myself a start for road position ahead of the traffic when the lights change, I coast to the light as it turns red. ... I continue to coast towards the crossing (around 5-6 metres away now). ... am fully aware of what I'm doing/ am taking no risks with anyone's safety. And yes, letter of the law, blah blah, but there's no way this was in anyway a risk.

It may not be a risk but is a very annoying nusiance to other cyclists who have stopped at the stop line when you then jump the queue, especially if you are then slower than them. I suffered from this a lot yesterday riding in London from Angel to Teddington. At a lot of lights, I stopped where we should, then several lemming-like 'cyclists' rolled past me and stopped a few metres ahead. When the lights changed, they set off slowly and I kept finding myself trapped behind them or veering out to pass them. I'd overtake them sooner or later, than they'd do it again at the next lights. Very annoying, as well as making themselves look like idiots who have never seen a Highway Code.

Jon

Gussio

I would be furious if somebody kicked my bike, no matter where I came to a standstill. It is the height of rudeness and the guy deserved a kick back.

Off-topic, but related to crossing lines, what is it with scooters and their desire to sit in the "green box"? It is dangerous and annoying. Probably illegal too.

Lbaguley

Yep - only things supposed to be in the "green box" are bicycles. So is motorbikes & scooters in bus lanes, but not once have I seen any pulled up for it, formally or for a 'chat'.

afctumike

SecretSam wrote:

I thought this post was going to be about pedestrians stepping out, which happens ALL THE TIME :evil: :evil: :evil:

Too right! I was cycling through the centre of West Bromwich yesterday afternoon. As I approached traffic lights several cars had turned left ahead and there was a bit of gap between them and me. Lights were still on green for me, pedestrian "walking man" obviously on red, and a number of pedestrians some with push chairs from each side of the road started crossing! Instinctively I let out a yell and they parted like the Red Sea.

mailmannz

The thing is this...what point was served by these two pedo's getting all upset?

Did it make them feel better? Probably not as they were probably quite worked up during and straight after the event.

Did they get their point across? Most likely not as most people turn off as soon as they are confronted by someone being aggressive.

Its things like this that really get my goat. A month ago when I last walked to work before me push bike turned up I was walking behind a couple in the middle of a massive foot path (at least 10 feet wide) which bordered a very busy street that cyclists Ive seen never ride on (always on the foot path, and I dont blame them!).

Anyway, coming the other way was a cyclist, on the edge closest to the road, travelling quite slow and being very mindful of the small smattering of pedo's also using the foot path when suddenly the guy in the couple in front of me started getting all ugly with the cyclist!

He achieved nothing, got shouted back at by the cyclist, worked up his heart rate (he went red in the face) and then got abused by the big guy walking behind him (me! ) about not getting any sex that morning

Instead, if he had just been polite, maybe asked him why he was riding his bike on the footpath instead of maybe walking it or even considered the heavy fast flowing traffic on the road he wouldnt have had such a crap start to the day.

Sometimes people can be morons where the easiest thing to do is just get sh1tty instead of actually stepping back, assessing the situation and the dealing with it in a cool, calm, collective manner.

Mailman

alan_sherman

Peds, not pedos (unless you know something about them the rest of us don't!) :shock:

Clever Pun

Lbaguley wrote:

Yep - only things supposed to be in the "green box" are bicycles. So is motorbikes & scooters in bus lanes, but not once have I seen any pulled up for it, formally or for a 'chat'.

there is a pilot scheme that allows motorbikes and scooters into some bus lanes it makes it a little worrying when you're in primary and something buzzes past you at quite a speed

as with the queu jumping thing, this drove me nuts when cycling from elephant & castle to London bridge... an absolute tonne of w@nkers...

But is it ok to jump the queue (if there is such a thing) if you're a faster cyclist?

BentMikey

What's quite ironic is that Mailman's rant is very justifiable, and equally applicable to cyclists getting shirty with car drivers.

manick0de

I was a bit too aggresive the other day going through a ped crossing. Traffic lights were green and ped sign was on red, don't walk. I slowed down but this is in the city centre so peds were everywhere crossing anyway, as I was the only road user at the time nobody seemed to notice me. I thought at the time "I'll teach them for crossing on a red without looking". I shouted full whack "COMING THROUGH" sending shoppers in all direction most of which looked up and froze on the spot and shrieking. I sped past them shouting "It's don't walk".

Maybe it was a bit wreckless but hey, It was fun and they'll think again before "jumping a red"

BentMikey

I got told off by a ped today, btw. Crossing is green for me, red for pedestrians, and I'm filtering up a solid queue of traffic. I'm going super slow and carefully, and a ped tries to cross in front of the bus and complains when I carry on through. There was no danger, I was expecting peds anyway, so I just called out "It's a red man mate".

jel

I'll take my chances at the front. Everyone's got a nice long period of time to see me and I get a headstart. Besides which, I hate the exhausts.

homercles

So in answer to my original question, seems like we're all becoming more confrontational (have since decided this is a more accurate word than militant)! Guess that reflects society at large anyway...

And as a follow on to the bit about my back wheel being kicked, a spoke went yesterday on it cycling up Balham Hill. Could be utterly unrelated but sure that being booted didn't help so that's another load of cash gone - Moose Cycles will be pleased.

And on reflection I think I'm with jel on the front thing, at certain junctions anyway.

BentMikey

It might feel safer, but it isn't. Try doing it the cyclecraft way a few times, and I'm sure you'll be as surprised as I was. It's not always appropriate, but when it is, and that's most of the time, it works very well indeed. There's an example right at the start of this video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Fw234ZDcsmw

I'm sure you guys don't do this, but it does irk me when some plonker goes so far into the junction that he/she can't see the lights any more, and then wobbles around and starts off late because they can only react to the traffic behind starting off.

homercles

BentMikey wrote:

I'm sure you guys don't do this, but it does irk me when some plonker goes so far into the junction that he/she can't see the lights any more, and then wobbles around and starts off late because they can only react to the traffic behind starting off.

Hahaha - yes, this is a cracker. See this a lot around where I work as there are so many lights that they usually only have one set by the stop line and none on the other side of the road.

No YouTube access at work so will have to watch the vid later on - boy the Friday nights really do fly by here! :oops:

Random Vince

ok, so the cycle craft method is to hang a coupple of cars from the line

whats the best thing to do if you are first at the lights without filtering?

BentMikey

Stick in primary until you're past the junction and it's safe to move back to secondary to allow other faster vehicles to pass you.

mailmannz

homercles wrote:

So in answer to my original question, seems like we're all becoming more confrontational (have since decided this is a more accurate word than militant)! Guess that reflects society at large anyway...

You are right, this reflects English society to a tee (or maybe more accurately, London society eh?).

In 20 years of cycling in NZ the worst thing to ever happen to me is when my front wheel got stuck in a gutter and I ended up flying over my handle bars (admittedly it was a down hill off road section of track ).

Here in London though it seems everyones first reaction is to get sh1tty and start ranting and raving...almost as if the art of polite conversation has been lost or something!

And sometimes us cyclists can be our own worst enemies (running red lights, road rage at motorists etc etc etc).

Mailman

dondare

jel wrote:

I'll take my chances at the front. Everyone's got a nice long period of time to see me and I get a headstart. Besides which, I hate the exhausts.

And me. I'll wait behind the lead cars when they start making them with forward-facing exhaust pipes.

Mikey Mouse

Here as well.I've taken my chances at the front for years.The motorists get the idea.

BigWomble

homercles wrote:

In the last 10 days I've had two incidents with pedestrians that have really annoyed me.

1) Cycling across a pelican crossing (lights green) when traffic slows to a halt, leaving me stranded in the middle of the crossing as the lights go red. Peds start crossing in droves and filing around me and all of a sudden one guy boots the back of my bike and shouts at me to get out of the way. Now I'm a bit protective of the steed so gave him a fair earful and watched him scurry away into the masses, and to be fair one woman did point out to him that I had been stranded when the lights changed, but I hope he won't be booting anyone's rear wheel again. Thankfully no damage done.

2) Last night riding home and coming very slowly (c.8mph) to a junction where I like to sit at the stop line on the other side of the ped crossing, to give myself a start for road position ahead of the traffic when the lights change, I coast to the light as it turns red. The solitary ped crossing steps out and looks right at me, I look back and it's clear we've seen each other, I continue to coast towards the crossing (around 5-6 metres away now).

Then he stops right in the middle of my line, confronts me (actively tries to be in my way by moving side to side) and tells me it's a red light, can't you see etc etc when it's clear I've seen him, seen the light (at this stage I'm barely above walking pace) and am fully aware of what I'm doing/ am taking no risks with anyone's safety. And yes, letter of the law, blah blah, but there's no way this was in anyway a risk.

Now while it's one thing to whizz across a crossing without looking, slowing etc I think it's totally different if you're manoeuvring (slowly) to establish position for setting off from the signal, and on a crossing where if the guy hadn't stood still I would never have been anywhere near him (and was still able to stop easily and under perfect control when he did become unpredictable).

I often feel like the one thing that provides safety on a bike is being able to give yourself that 5-10m start at a junction so you can pick your line as you move off without fear of being mown down. Seems like peds don't give a sh** one way or the other and now they're dishing out grief for it!

Anyone else had confrontations with militant peds lately? The Freewheel could be fun this weekend!

Homercles,

if you think you've got it tough as a cyclist, you should try being a pedestrian. Despite the usual talk about putting pedestrians first, they are very much last in the pecking order. They have to give way to traffic at every side road and crossing. Cars rarely signal for pedestrians, so pedestrians have to constantly guess what the idiot in the metal box is up to. If a pedestrian gives way to a car, by allowing them to cross the pavement into a car park, the car driver rarely acknowledges the gesture - "well, the pedestrian should have given way anyway", seems to be their attitude.

In fact, there is only one time that pedestrians go first, and that is at a pedestrian crossing. I guess in the second case, the guy snapped. I understand the feeling, when cyclists cannot even bring themselves to yield just the once. What car drivers make of this red light jumping, I don't know.

In the first case, I think you were very much in the right. It's very difficult to judge these things correctly, even though technically you shouldn't block a crossing. The important thing is to stop. I've had traffic inching slowly through a pedestrian crossing, and even when the lights turn red for the traffic, they keep inching along.

BW