nervous downhill

norcalbiker

I had a couple of bad crashes on downhill about a year ago. The bike I was riding had a loose headset, which I didn't recognize. The bike went unstable and I lost control.

Since then I have descended many hills, on my well maintained bike. But I am still very nervous on long descents, riding the brakes the whole way down. I can't seem to shake the feeling of loosing control again.

Any advice on regaining confidence? Would a change of wheels or other equipment improve the feeling of stability?

rustychisel

ride more downhills... is the short answer.

I crashed several times about 3~4 years ago, and for us mere mortals it takes quite a while to get the confidence back. I'm back to my usual breakneck speed, but it took a lot of self-doubt, worry, and dragging brakes. Take it easy, it will come.

simbil1

Ride with others and hang off the back following their line and speed. I broke my collar bone in March and am still not up to full speed but getting closer by following others.
I found 25mm tyres on hand built 32H wheels gave me more confidence too as they are solid feeling over rough descents and stop quickly if needed.

rustychisel

they may give you more confidence, but this is a misleading direction to take in this particular question. The question at hand is of riding within limitations and confidence of the given equipment; often we crash when those limitations are exceeded, or the equipment is deficient, in the case of a loose headset, for example. I usually ride on Ksyrium wheels, but it would be a poor answer indeed if I claimed I was faster downhill than most of my mates on account of them (Veloflex tyres, are, however, a whole different degree of confidence inspiring).

The best advice is to know the limitations - of rider and of bike. And of terrain, come to that. The best descents come from being smooth and flowing and allowing the bike to 'have its head'. Braking is counterintuitive, and getting back to speed one of the hardest things to achieve when your confidence has been knocked. Try - I say try - to get back on the saddle for effective weight transfer and more effective braking, let the bike build up speed, aim for smooth entry and exit in corners, braking only to reduce sppeed going into corners, and get down in the drops with your hands covering the brakes at all times. Mostly, keep the pedals at 3pm and 9pm and use your legs as shock absorbers rather than have your entire weight upon the saddle. Drop the outside leg to the 6pm postion only when going entering a corner.

John.T

Rustychisels advice is good. I would also add not to drag the brakes as it heats the rims up and can cause blowouts on long descents. Better to let the speed build up and then brake harder to bring the speed down. Brake early for corners and try never to brake in them. Practice using the front brake for most of the braking with the back one just below lock up point. With practice this will give maximum stopping power which will lead to more confidence in letting the bike run.

Monty Dog

On the subject of braking - try and brake before the turn, not whilst turning - if you have to brake hard, straighten up rather than heeling the bike over - brake hard to lose the speed and lay the bike back down into the turn - it may seem counter-intuitive, but you are far less likely to slide. Wider, softer tyres also help to keep more rubber on the road, improving grip as the wider carcass give more progressive feel. Also, learn to use the camber of the road - many people mistakenly run too close into the turn, overshoot the crown and turn too late with the apex of their turn on the 'wrong' side of the camber.

heavymental

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12542718

Few tips above that might be useful.

Oh and welcome to the forum!

wildmoustache

rustychisel's advice is good.

3 and 9 pm for the feet makes a big difference to stability. moving back in the saddle and relaxing your arms helps. really concentrate on everything ahead. brake late with your weight shifted right back.

on long descents use both brakes and pulse brake to control speed rather than constant braking but on shorter stuff when you're not at risk of overheating the rims, just use the front brake.

stay within your limitations. who cares if it takes 10 secs more to descend a hill as long as you're safe? work on other parts of your riding so that descending assumes less importance to you.

check the headset and brakes and get them perfect. if it helps with your confidence, then torque wrench some other parts so you know the bike is as it should be.

Mike Willcox1

norcalbiker wrote:

I had a couple of bad crashes on downhill about a year ago. The bike I was riding had a loose headset, which I didn't recognize. The bike went unstable and I lost control.

Since then I have descended many hills, on my well maintained bike. But I am still very nervous on long descents, riding the brakes the whole way down. I can't seem to shake the feeling of loosing control again.

Any advice on regaining confidence? Would a change of wheels or other equipment improve the feeling of stability?

Having had the misfortune to crash downhill twice due to equipment failure I can understand your fears. The same lack of confidence occurs when you are a novice. The more you do the greater your confidence will build. After a couple of months off the bike recently my first ride included a steep and fairly long descent. The thrill of going down that descent was wonderful. I completely forgot about any crashes I had previously had or could have in the future.

My recommendation is to go out and enjoy your ride. It will hurt if you come off at 20 /30 mph just as it would at 40 mph.

simbil1

rustychisel wrote:

they may give you more confidence, but this is a misleading direction to take in this particular question. The question at hand is of riding within limitations and confidence of the given equipment; often we crash when those limitations are exceeded, or the equipment is deficient, in the case of a loose headset, for example. I usually ride on Ksyrium wheels, but it would be a poor answer indeed if I claimed I was faster downhill than most of my mates on account of them (Veloflex tyres, are, however, a whole different degree of confidence inspiring).

<good advice on descending>

The thing is that being more confident in your equipment makes you descend better (not feathering the brakes but braking assertively etc) and gets you back up to speed. Once your technique is back and confidence increasing, you could decide if you wanted to return to the old equipment and learn to ride within its limits.
It's not so much as getting down faster than your mates, just having the confidence that your tyre has a good chance of surviving an unseen pot hole and is a good size to slow down quickly when necessary.
I'd never thought about braking much before my accident and took the standard 23mm tyres to be the 'best'. But for the riding I am doing, 25mm is better and the stronger wheelset is more predictable when braking and when leaning the bike over compared to the slightly flimsy factory set they replaced. Rough British country descents suit more of a Roubaix bike (strong wheels with wider tyres) than a standard racer IMHO.
Riding within the limits of the equipment is great advice - but why make it harder for yourself? Get the right kit for your style/type of riding you do.
Sheldon brown has a note on 25mm tyres in here that may be of interest and lots of good advice:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/descending.html

rustychisel

Yep, fair point being made, and I don't disagree with you, but felt the idea of 'buying your way out of trouble' is not a good direction to go.

Suitability of equipment is one thing, and I support your reasoning entirely. But to put it another way, put a tentative and hesitant rider on the best of bikes and they're still a lot more likely to deck it. Mostly, it's about the rider, and a lot of that it about atttiude and correct approach.

norcalbiker

Thank you all who have taken the time to reply. I am surprised to find so many people who have had a similar experience.

When I first posted, I expected someone to say "just get over your silly cae of nerves." I sometimes think that is what is going through the heads of my bike buddies who are wating for me at the bottom of a long down hill run. Before my accident, I would have felt that way, I am ashamed to admit. Now I dread the lhose long downhills more that any of the "going up" parts.

I have concluded that I just need to take the hillls at the pace that makes sense for me. It is not about my current bike. It is a wonderful bike that fits me well and is well maintained. It is about my insecurity at being able to react fast enough to control the bike in when some thing surprising happens. That will insecurtiy I think should rebulid as a do more downhills. (Hopefully my bakes and my hands hold out until then.)

Thanks again.

norcalbiker

I had been considering changing wheels on my bike to something lighter and stiffer. (I currently am riding Campy Centour hubs with OpPro rims.) I want wheels that make the bike feel faster going up hills.

Your comment suggest that is a bad idea. I guess those lighter wheels will not help in building my confidence going down, once I am up the hill.

Please correct me if I got that bit wrong.

rustychisel

Hey Norcal, lots of us have crashed, I'm guessing, and most of us don't get to jump back on the bike like we see the pros doing. It hurts, and it hits your confidence, even if you're not injured too badly.

I'd rate a pair of Centaur/OpenPro wheels...nothing wrong with them or their stiffness if properly built (spoke tension good etc). Yes, you could get lighter and 'stiffer', and I suspect you could get a great sense of 'better' with some really good light tyres on those wheels. One thing which comes with lightweight equipment is a very different handling downhill; acceleration is massive, the front end can feel sketchy on a very light bike, and the thing might want to take off on the slightest bumps. It takes time to learn to handle a truly light bike.

Those who know used to say what was needed between an uphill bike and a downhill is diametrically opposed. Chris Boradman, for example, was quite outspoken in saying he wanted the lightest possible bike for going uphill but feared the idea of riding the same one down the other side. We mere mortals have to select our outfitting based on all the riding we're doing and all the conditions we might expect.

I still say it's about technique and confidence, but understand that also means confidence in your equipment to do what you ask of it. Perhaps you could borrow some quite different wheels from a mate (even swap wheels and ride together, then compare notes on how you both felt about the differences. You might find it very interesting to borrow a set of Ksyriums, or Easton for comparison purposes.