"Biver was a mistake"

Bronzie

If Nikolai Proskurin, the vice-president of the Kazakh cycling federation, has his way, Team Astana General Manager Marc Biver will be leaving the team. "Hiring Biver at the start of the year was our biggest mistake," he said.

According to Radsport-Aktiv.de, Proskurin said in an interview with the Kazakh magazine, Our Sport, "It is 150 percent certain, that he won't work for us in 2008. We have had good discussions with Johan Bruyneel. We want him as Biver's successor. Johan enjoys a good reputation in cycling."

...............................for his riders not testing positive........................until they leave.

andrewgturnbull

Bronzie wrote:

...............................for his riders not testing positive........................until they leave.

Which is ideal from an employer's point of view!

Kléber

I actually read the interview in Kazakh and I think it translates better as: "Vino got busted and we're pinning the blame on Biver. Now we need Bruyneel to design a foolproof system that will mean we'll never get caught."

I hope the UCI shreds their pro tour licence. This outfit makes Tinkoff look reputable.

iainf72

Kléber wrote:

I hope the UCI shreds their pro tour licence. This outfit makes Tinkoff look reputable.

Shred it based on what? 2 postives in a year?

DaveyL

What about Kessler?

top_bhoy

iainf72 wrote:

Kléber wrote:

I hope the UCI shreds their pro tour licence. This outfit makes Tinkoff look reputable.

Shred it based on what? 2 postives in a year?

No - shred it for bringing cycling into disrepute!!

Do you believe that the team leader would have blood transfusions without the top leadership not knowing about it?

iainf72

DaveyL wrote:

What about Kessler?

Good point. I forgot about him.

T-Mobile have had 2 positives too.

Kléber

3 positives, no apology, blaming conspiracies, bemoaning human rights, no dope testing and now their sticking two fingers up by talking about Bruyneel.

T-Mobile might be clumsy but at least they admit (partially) their mistakes and plenty of their riders are opnely against doping. Astana just want to hire the dodgiest riders and behave outrageously.

iainf72

Kléber wrote:

T-Mobile might be clumsy but at least they admit (partially) their mistakes and plenty of their riders are opnely against doping. Astana just want to hire the dodgiest riders and behave outrageously.

They admit it but accept no responsibility. They've never suspended themselves from competition etc. They just get up on their high horse and spin about how they're trying (bless)

I'm no Astana fan but everyone seems to be content to let T-Mobiles positives go because they "like" them whilst "hating" Astana.

Kléber

No one's letting T-Mobile positives go unpunished. But you can't compare it, the schemes Vino and others have been up to (look at the Dauphine Libere performances) suggest industrial practices across the team, we're not talking about a few idiots with banned substances stashed in their suitcases.

The likes of Gerdemann, Cavendish, Pinotti and many others openly condemn doping and dopers. The likes of Vino, Kash and others openly condemn the anti-doping rules. I'm not going to buy a T-Mobile shirt tomorrow but plenty of their members have my respect.

homercles

I just like the thread name. The times I've woken up and thought to myself, "Oh dear, that beaver was a mistake".

iainf72

Kléber wrote:

No one's letting T-Mobile positives go unpunished.

The team have had multiple positives this year yet the team have not been sanctioned.

Of course the UCI will cut them some slack when they allow one of their youngsters to be wheeled out as a posterboy for their daft charter.

nick hanson

Bronzie wrote:

If Nikolai Proskurin, the vice-president of the Kazakh cycling federation, has his way, Team Astana General Manager Marc Biver will be leaving the team. "Hiring Biver at the start of the year was our biggest mistake," he said.

.

Always good to have a fall guy.Of course,all the guys on the team were doping virgins,& if it wasn't for that bad Mr Biver............ :roll:

Bronzie

homercles wrote:

The times I've woken up and thought to myself, "Oh dear, that beaver was a mistake".

Whose beaver was it?
Did she agree with you?

We need to be told.....................

andyp

iainf72 wrote:

The team have had multiple positives this year yet the team have not been sanctioned.

Of course the UCI will cut them some slack when they allow one of their youngsters to be wheeled out as a posterboy for their daft charter.

Better not read this Iain as it'll make your blood boil.

Edited highlights;

But talk to Bob Stapleton, the boss of leading team T-Mobile, and you get a very different picture.

He doesn't think the appetite is there within the sport to put things straight and claims cycling needs a top-down reorganisation to oust the culture of doping.

Stapleton says the rest of the peloton should take a leaf out of T-Mobile's book. The German-backed team has strict contracts with its riders to ensure full compliance with their rigorous internal testing regime.

Does he really think it's rigorous or is that just PR?

vermooten

Kléber wrote:

3 positives, no apology, blaming conspiracies, bemoaning human rights...

These refer to the individuals who were caught not the team.

Kléber

What is the team except a group of individuals? If many of them are up to no good - witness the Dauphin Libere - what is happening? It sounds to me like the Kazakh management are trying to dodge the issue. Bruyneel is not exactly a new broom is he?

andrewgturnbull

You're right - something about Biver stinks.

andrewgturnbull

(sorry)

iainf72

andyp wrote:

Better not read this Iain as it'll make your blood boil.

Does he really think it's rigorous or is that just PR?

Oh, the cheek of the man! For god sakes Bob, you're employing Aldag! What is wrong with that picture?? They always bang on about blood volume tests because blood is what Ullrich was done for, so it makes for good copy.

I'll tell you what's winding me up is no one seems to go after Bob and ask him the difficult questions. They just kiss his butt - Kind of like people used to do to USPS / Discovery in the Lance days. Where are the Procycling boys - Jeff? Why do you let Bob and the T-Mobile media machine get away with this nonsense?

cougie

vino is astana.

I wouldnt trust them or their riders.

T mobile seem to be heading the right way, they're not 100%, but with the team leader doing blood doping for astana, and then bleating about human rights - who would you put your money on being the cleaner team ?

girofan

:roll: :roll: Have read all the comments on Astana, T-mobile and think it perhaps would be best if the UCI shredded all licences and had teams including Continental profs. re-apply for a new licence. Valid for just 12 months, with promotion and relegation for bottom/top three of each section. A fresh start with the most draconian rules they can think up! :idea:

DaveyL

So, ian, what should T-Mobile be doing and saying to get you onside?

andyp

DaveyL wrote:

So, ian, what should T-Mobile be doing and saying to get you onside?

I'll let Iain answer for himself, but for me they've got to show they are serious about their anti-doping message and that means they contract in a world renowed, outspoken doping expert to run their testing regime for them.

This is what Riis did with CSC in appointing Rasmus Damsgaard who, previously, had been a vociferous critic of Riis and his team.

The obvious candidate for T-Mobile is one Werner Franke. Picking the same medical team that you used all through the 1990s whom, it later transpired, had been adminstering PEDs to the riders wasn't the best step.

I don't think, as others may, that they need to get rid of all the management with a history of doping as I believe people can change.

iainf72

DaveyL wrote:

So, ian, what should T-Mobile be doing and saying to get you onside?

Put a decent programme in place - External and independant for a start. And not through a normal ADA either.

Remove staff with baggage who've already demonstrated they're perfectly happy glossing over their history unti they're backed into a corner. They need to have a good look at their staff in general - I like Allan Peiper, for example, but if you've read his book you have to wonder if he'd turn a blind eye if neccessary (Look at his comments about Tyler or Hondo for example)

Stop the spin - Empty gestures like shoving Cavendish into the spotlight with Pat "Destroying Pro cycling, one day at a time" McQuaid to launch that anti-doping charter doesn't do them any favours.

iainf72

andyp wrote:

The obvious candidate for T-Mobile is one Werner Franke.

What do you make of him defending Hondo though?

And he married a female shot putter.

LangerDan

iainf72 wrote:

andyp wrote:

Better not read this Iain as it'll make your blood boil.

Does he really think it's rigorous or is that just PR?

I'll tell you what's winding me up is no one seems to go after Bob and ask him the difficult questions. They just kiss his butt - Kind of like people used to do to USPS / Discovery in the Lance days. Where are the Procycling boys - Jeff? Why do you let Bob and the T-Mobile media machine get away with this nonsense?

Perhaps because if they do pursue that particular avenue of investigation, they'll find their access to the team cut off. Not a good move for an English-language magazine to lose access to Cav, Wiggins,Hammond.....

Noodley

Anyone just watched "Inside Sport" on BBC re doping controls in cycling? (Apart from me, obviously.)

iainf72

LangerDan wrote:

Perhaps because if they do pursue that particular avenue of investigation, they'll find their access to the team cut off. Not a good move for an English-language magazine to lose access to Cav, Wiggins,Hammond.....

Which makes it sound exactly like the Bad Old Days, doesn't it?

andyp

iainf72 wrote:

What do you make of him defending Hondo though?

And he married a female shot putter.

I had sympathy for Hondo as there was, if I recall correctly, only a minute trace of carphedron in his sample. But that was then and this is now, so he got his just desserts and a justified ban.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by your second statement - is association with female shot putters akin to training in black kit in odd places now then? I'd have thought all it shows is a liking for physically strong women.

iainf72

Oooh - I just saw Franke on Five. They had a program on about doping in East Germany.

He's a jolly and friendly looking chap.