ToB woes

the doktor

Just read in todays Observer that a whole section of ToB stage had to be neutralised due to cars on the route!!

Tehy couldn't organise a piss up in a pub!! EIther run it properly or not at all. :roll:

velodromeorguk

just changed things like this to sweetspot from perfect motion

DaveyL

I heard that a group chasing the leaders got held up due to a train on a level crossing. Ridiculous!

Oh wait, that was Paris-Roubaix...

top_bhoy

You have to have some sympathy for the organisers. Having to liaise with several councils and police authorities just to cover one stage and then having to do the same again with a completely different set for the next stage is an almost thankless task. I don't know what pressures they can bring to the different councils/police authorities to try and get permissions earlier to allow backup plans to be implemented and organised earlier. It would be interesting to know the more in depth reasons behind the stage 4 neutralisation. Hats off to the organisers anyway for giving it a go under far from ideal conditions.

GroupOfOne MkII

the doktor wrote:

Just read in todays Observer that a whole section of ToB stage had to be neutralised due to cars on the route!!

Tehy couldn't organise a wee-wee up in a pub!! EIther run it properly or not at all. :roll:

Hmmm not exactly correct to be fair!
It wasn't because of cars on the route, but because the correct paper work was submitted a few days (four I believe) late. Also "whole section" is a bit misleading, as it was around 20 miles of stage 4, though I suppose it depends how you define section really doesn't it, as stages don't really have sections do they

chrisba

I heard that a group chasing the leaders got held up due to a train on a level crossing. Ridiculous!

This happens in the Tour de France too. There are rules specifically to deal with it, and it did happen in 2006

chrisba

I was impressed by the rolling road block system that they used. Apparantly, early on Stage 1 a bus initially refused to stop when instructed to by one of the Police bikes. Another bike then pulled him over, and made him reverse back off the course.

He was given a ticket ( presumably for failing to obey the instructions of a traffic officer or something similar ). The driver of the Reading based bus is going to have a hard time explaining why he has a ticket that was issued by Strathclyde police !

vermooten

Top_Bhoy wrote:

You have to have some sympathy for the organisers.

Nope, none. it's their job.

Kléber

The trouble is, there's always something going wrong with the British Tour. You'd think sponsors would be begging for their teams to come to Britain, to get their brands recognised a bit more in Europe's second biggest economy. Instead, they're sending their squads to Poland.

With poor organisation and no TV, the field is padded out with plenty of unknown ragtag teams. It's a tiny race, a rival of the Tour of Croatia or the Tour of Sweden. It shouldn't be so.

Anonymous

Pete Cossins [Procycling editor] has his say: http://www.bikeradar.com/blogs/article/ ... here-12499

Bronzie

Kléber wrote:

Instead, they're sending their squads to Poland.

To be fair, the ProTour teams have to go to Poland - it's part of the ProTour - they don't have a choice. From Yates' comments on Friday's coverage, the team and the riders would rather not have to risk life and limb on poorly thought out circuits that the Polish organisers have cobbled together for the last few years.

The problem with a national tour of Britain is that there has never been any continuity. Prudential were supposed to back a Tour of Britain for 3 years in the late 90's but pulled the plug after 2 IIRC - the event was then shelved for 5 years.

For the event to improve in status, it has to be run year after year which means finding some serious sponsorship - not an easy job with the current image of pro cycling.

The problems the event has had in the last few years appear to me to be due to lack of experience on behalf of the organisers - again, something that can only be solved by having more big events promoted by the same team (think ASO).

SteveR_100Milers

Surely part of the problem is that the British public is just simply not interested in cycling enough to warrant the amount of hassle that the authorities and organisers have to go through in order to make it work properly. I doubt it is simply just poor planning, and is probably as much due to unwilling LA's who cannot see it as a valid way of spending money, and the political damage from closing roads to motorists.

top_bhoy

SteveR_100Milers wrote:

Surely part of the problem is that the British public is just simply not interested in cycling enough to warrant the amount of hassle that the authorities and organisers have to go through in order to make it work properly. I doubt it is simply just poor planning, and is probably as much due to unwilling LA's who cannot see it as a valid way of spending money, and the political damage from closing roads to motorists.

I agree to an extent but not on the public not inerested in cycling. Many of the LAs and and general public embrace it and welcome it - (I'm a bit biased but...) Glasgow is a good example. Its simply a minority of LAs are probably very reluctant and one reluctant LA can spoil the entire organisation and make it difficult. Its easy to be critical when you don't need to deal and reach agreement with several LAs and several police forces simultaneously.

SteveR_100Milers

Top_Bhoy wrote:

SteveR_100Milers wrote:

Surely part of the problem is that the British public is just simply not interested in cycling enough to warrant the amount of hassle that the authorities and organisers have to go through in order to make it work properly. I doubt it is simply just poor planning, and is probably as much due to unwilling LA's who cannot see it as a valid way of spending money, and the political damage from closing roads to motorists.

I agree to an extent but not on the public not inerested in cycling. Many of the LAs and and general public embrace it and welcome it - (I'm a bit biased but...) Glasgow is a good example. Its simply a minority of LAs are probably very reluctant and one reluctant LA can spoil the entire organisation and make it difficult. Its easy to be critical when you don't need to deal and reach agreement with several LAs and several police forces simultaneously.

Agree with that.

But if cycling was higher up the public agenda then there wouldnt be rogue LA's making it difficult. Therefore I actually have some sympathy for the organisers trying to make the best of an intrinsically difficult position, albeit a minority.

andyp

SteveR_100Milers wrote:

Surely part of the problem is that the British public is just simply not interested in cycling enough to warrant the amount of hassle that the authorities and organisers have to go through in order to make it work properly.

Two million people in London to see the Tour prologue would tend to suggest that they are interested to some extent. I think it depends on the event as there was probably closer to 100th of that at the ToB prologue in Crystal Palace last Sunday.

SteveR_100Milers

andyp wrote:

SteveR_100Milers wrote:

Surely part of the problem is that the British public is just simply not interested in cycling enough to warrant the amount of hassle that the authorities and organisers have to go through in order to make it work properly.

Two million people in London to see the Tour prologue would tend to suggest that they are interested to some extent. I think it depends on the event as there was probably closer to 100th of that at the ToB prologue in Crystal Palace last Sunday.

One Grand Depart does not make a cycling nation! Come on, this place is way behind most of Europe in its attitude towards cycling. For every enthusiastic spectator on the Mall there are 35-40 waiting to either swear at us or try to knock us off our bikes!

cougie

Its no easy task to organise a national tour in a country thats largely uninterested in cycling.
Mick Bennett and co do a good job - its inevitable that some things will go awry.

Whats the budget of the TOB vs TdF ?

And is the government bothered about getting people exercising for the health of the nation, or is it largely talk ?

girofan

TOB troubles could be avoided with a concept called organisation. No one to operate the timing equipment at the Palace. A whole 9 months to contact LA's and ACPO.
It certainly doesn't help by having disjointed stages all over Britain, and if one LA refuses to co-operate, there are always those that will, and probably welcome the event.
Why not run joined-up stages in one area of Britain for one edition and another area the next year. Thoughts anyone? Over to you, Mr Bennett!

Anonymous

girofan wrote:

TOB troubles could be avoided with a concept called organisation. No one to operate the timing equipment at the Palace. A whole 9 months to contact LA's and ACPO.
It certainly doesn't help by having disjointed stages all over Britain, and if one LA refuses to co-operate, there are always those that will, and probably welcome the event.
Why not run joined-up stages in one area of Britain for one edition and another area the next year. Thoughts anyone? Over to you, Mr Bennett!

You couldn't be more wrong about that.

afx237vi

cougie wrote:

Whats the budget of the TOB vs TdF ?

What a ridiculous comparison. The TdF is in a league of it's own in all sport, not just cycling.

You should be comparing the ToB to the numerous 5-7 day stage-races that happen all over Europe virtually every week from February until October.

Spain has dozens, one for almost every region of the country. How do they cope? They all go off without a hitch because they're planned properly by organisers who know how to run a bike race.

The ToB is in it's fifth year and every year so far has been hit by rather embarrassing incidents. Is it any coincidence that this year only had two Pro Tour teams competing? Last year there were 5. Can anyone blame Quick Step or Predictor-Lotto for not turning up when stuff like this happens?

iainf72

afx237vi wrote:

cougie wrote:

The ToB is in it's fifth year and every year so far has been hit by rather embarrassing incidents. Is it any coincidence that this year only had two Pro Tour teams competing? Last year there were 5. Can anyone blame Quick Step or Predictor-Lotto for not turning up when stuff like this happens?

And that's a big problem. The prologue was just down the road from me but I didn't go because I didn't have much interest in the teams competing. (aside from Team Oleg) If you can't get the 5 (is it 5?) PT teams you'd be allowed in this kind of event, it's not going to draw big crowds or grow much.

GroupOfOne MkII

It's interesting that everyone say's the ProTour teams attract the crowds, but this year the racing was hell of alot better without so many PT teams - no race winning break going on the first road stage, and no more cynical tactics by Quickstep.

Would more people have turned out if say QS had been riding? Ok maybe some hardcore cycling fans that would be the difference to them coming and watching (or not as with you Iain). But I think the battle is more to attract the non-cycling fans, and to them to the vast extent having a Belgian PT team over a Belgian continental team isn't going to matter much as they'll all be people they haven't heard of!

As for disjointed stages all over the country well that's the price to pay for having a race that is supported by the local authorities and RDAs rather than a commercial sponsor e.g. Prudential, and remember what happened when they lost interest?!

It is better to compare the ToB to all the week long stage races in Europe rather than the TdF (but hey why not try and aspire to the top) and they do have problems too with traffic etc every so often, so perhaps a bit of perspective is needed as we just are more aware of the slightest mistake because it is on our doorstep. I think comparing the ToB to other 'new' events like the Tour of Poland or ENECO would be wise, even Cavendish said it is an event still in it's infancy and it is still growing - a day more this year and the riders, teams, journalists were alot happier with the increased safety along the route this year too.

I know there were negatives (as there always are in life) but there were some great positives too! So let's look forward to an even better ToB in '08!

iainf72

GroupOfOne MkII wrote:

It's interesting that everyone say's the ProTour teams attract the crowds, but this year the racing was hell of alot better without so many PT teams - no race winning break going on the first road stage, and no more cynical tactics by Quickstep.

This would mainly be because a PT team is more likely to have a "name" riding. And if you've got a big name Joe Public is more likely to have heard of them and more likely to turn up.

Just to mortify people, I bet if Discovery had ridden, the crowd at Crystal Palace would've been much larger.

On a positive, I thought the Beeb coverage was great and showed the country very well. Who doesn't want to take their bike down to Exmoor now?

SteveR_100Milers

iainf72 wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

cougie wrote:

The ToB is in it's fifth year and every year so far has been hit by rather embarrassing incidents. Is it any coincidence that this year only had two Pro Tour teams competing? Last year there were 5. Can anyone blame Quick Step or Predictor-Lotto for not turning up when stuff like this happens?

And that's a big problem. The prologue was just down the road from me but I didn't go because I didn't have much interest in the teams competing. (aside from Team Oleg) If you can't get the 5 (is it 5?) PT teams you'd be allowed in this kind of event, it's not going to draw big crowds or grow much.

And this is part of the issue: Iain you are obviously a keen cycling fan, but not of "any" cycling. In France, Spain, Italy et al, local races are as keenly watched as mums and dads watching little Jimmy playing footy in a saturday morning junior league. Cycling for its own sake just doesnt push anough buttons over here. Lets face it, in all honesty, how many Protour fans would go and watch the national TT champs? There were more people on the streets watching the Dragon than the welsh 12 hr champs, and the former isn't even a race!

Anonymous

iainf72 wrote:

GroupOfOne MkII wrote:

It's interesting that everyone say's the ProTour teams attract the crowds, but this year the racing was hell of alot better without so many PT teams - no race winning break going on the first road stage, and no more cynical tactics by Quickstep.

This would mainly be because a PT team is more likely to have a "name" riding. And if you've got a big name Joe Public is more likely to have heard of them and more likely to turn up.

Just to mortify people, I bet if Discovery had ridden, the crowd at Crystal Palace would've been much larger.

On a positive, I thought the Beeb coverage was great and showed the country very well. Who doesn't want to take their bike down to Exmoor now?

Well that's a first.
You normally whinge about everything to do with cycling.
First up with the bad news without fail everytime.
You couldn't be arsed to go down the road to support your own countries riders because there were no big name Pro Tour squads there?
Unbelievable.

Deuce

I thought the route was better this year, the finish in Wolerhampton, rather than the more ambitious, but disruptive to other traffic, finish in the centre of Birmingham for example. The use of the rolling hills made for good stages and an overall race and did give the actual race a 'British' feel.

There was only one local authority highways agency that gave a problem.

While the BBC's highlight program did tell the story of the race well it does need more coverage before and during to make it a public event. Many people would have come across the event throughout the week and would have expected to have seen more on the national public broadcaster. The RAS in Ireland for example will be given place in the national news.

Bear in mind that this time next year cycling may have contributed the bulk of British Olympic medals

iainf72

SteveR_100Milers wrote:

And this is part of the issue: Iain you are obviously a keen cycling fan, but not of "any" cycling. In France, Spain, Italy et al, local races are as keenly watched as mums and dads watching little Jimmy playing footy in a saturday morning junior league. Cycling for its own sake just doesnt push anough buttons over here.!

You are indeed correct. I will admit I'm terrible because literally all I care about is PT level mens events. Find track boring, ditto womans pro events and I tried to watch the U23 worlds last year but couldn't get into it.

But I suspect I'm not alone, although it probably is one step up from watching the TdF only.

That said I've never had any interest in competing in cycling "races" myself which would limit my exposure to the amateur ranks I guess.

Red Panda

I watched the ToB (Stage 5) at a road junction near to where I live. From a personal perspective I thought the rolling road block worked excellently, especially the way the motor cycle marshals handled a particularly nasty white van driver who 'effed and jeffed till he was purple in the face about having to go "10 miles out of his way blah blah" all because he wasn't allowed to cross for a while. All this until one of the many Police bikes turned up then he shut up pronto and did one...plonker.

It all seemed to work flawlessly where I watched and I really enjoyed it. I'm certainly looking forward to seeing it again next year.

I see this thread's topic title as being a bit negative as most sporting events have at least some troubles. I just hope that the ToB will go from strength to strength as an event and that the moaning minnies don't whine the thing to a halt.

GroupOfOne MkII

iainf72 wrote:

GroupOfOne MkII wrote:

It's interesting that everyone say's the ProTour teams attract the crowds, but this year the racing was hell of alot better without so many PT teams - no race winning break going on the first road stage, and no more cynical tactics by Quickstep.

This would mainly be because a PT team is more likely to have a "name" riding. And if you've got a big name Joe Public is more likely to have heard of them and more likely to turn up.

On a positive, I thought the Beeb coverage was great and showed the country very well. Who doesn't want to take their bike down to Exmoor now?

Hmm but a what point does a "name" become just another "name" (e.g. the average person hasn't got a clue who they are!). I think only the very high profile (ie those with some sort of coverage outside of the cycling specific press) are going to make a difference here, so we're talking the likes of Millar, Wiggins, Hincapie etc, basically the anglophones.

As for the tv coverage it was excellent. Was also pleasantly surprised by the bits shown on the all the local BBC news, both on the day of the race and the morning after.

Kléber

Nobody in France, Spain or Italy really knows the riders. For sure there are a few household names but ask the average Parisian or Roman who won last year's Vuelta and 99 out of 100 won't know.

Like I say, you'd think Pro Tour teams and the UCI would be desperate to stage a proper race in the UK, it's Europe's second biggest economy and the prospect of a proper race and TV coverage would have many teams drooling. Discovery, CSC, T-Mobile, Davitamon, Unibet, Quick-Step and many others would all love to flog their image to Brits.

There's serious scope to improve the race, to put on a proper event. Remember, nothing is as slick as the Tour, visit a week-long Spanish stage race and it'll have its problems too, it feels decidedly low-key. So you don't need to spend millions promoting the race, but you have to get the basics right.

Richrd2205

I do think that there's some degree of unhelpful cynicism here. There are two Pro Tour events on at the same time as the ToB, so it's going to be a struggle to get big teams & names to attend, however, I think that getting three TdF racers to come was no small achievement given the status & timing of the race. I would agree that the highlights program was good, but not having coverage during the week was a downfall: I'd not been online since stage 2, so had no idea what was going on in the GC when I watched the race finish in Glasgow & speaking to colleagues on Thursday, most had no idea it was happening. That said, there was a decent turn out in Glasgow, despite it being really cold & there being a forecast for rain, including a lot of kids & adults who weren't huge cycling fans.
Given the state of British roads, British apathy about cycling, British weather & the absence of culture here of massed start racing, I think that it was a fair achievement. Watching a pro race lead toward the finish on roads I commute on every day was something I didn't really imagine seeing. I'm quite positive about the event & hope that it continues to improve (& that it continues to finish in Glasgow...)