King of Titanium

mattdavies

I've been given the OK from the better half to buy my road 'frame for life' (well for the next few years anyway). It's def going to be in titanium, with full custom build.

My question is who do you guys and gals think are the top of the ti building tree? Would you go for a Litespeed, Moots, IF, Seven, Merlin etc etc?

mekonta

what sort of riding are you planning on doing? road racing, crits, sportives, club runs?

While all the brands you mention make beautiful machines, not all of them are particularly suited to being raced.

portuguese mike

I've ridden a moots vamoots and it was very, very nice (but not as nice as the waterford R33 i got instead!) so i'd deifinately conisider one of those, you can get a proper test ride from Rock n' Road in southampton if that's convenient.

you might also consider Lynksey, they look beautiful and i think they're made by the people who originally set up Litespeed (i may be wrong on that).

in any case having gone custom i wholeheartedly recommed it (for any frame material). Nothing beats having a frame built to fit you like a glove and to suit the way you ride

Blonde

Van Nicholas have been given good reviews. RoadcyclingUk review of the 'Yukon' here: http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/news/artic ... 31/v/1/sp/ and Bike radar review of 'Chinook' here: http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... inook-9577 Van Nicholas make all kinds of frames - audax, touring, racing, and also do custom builds.

mattdavies

Sorry should have mentioned. :oops: The bike wont be used for racing, more club runs and longer single rides 80miles +. I'm really after something that will last a long time (as i'm spending a lot of money), will be comfortable and not look dated in a few years time.

andyp

It'd boil down to three for me;

De Rosa

Nevi

Seven

I have a De Rosa Titanio which I bought back in 1999 and it's a superb bike that still brings a grin to my face when I ride it.

Nevi make beautiful looking frames and you don't see many outside of the north of Italy.

Seven are imported to the UK by my LBS and the level of detail on the workmanship is a joy to behold.

Monty Dog

The top league are probably Serotta, Seven, Moots and IF. Lynskey are new to the fold - but did establish Litespeed - so perhaps haven't had a chance to develop the same level of pedigree yet. From Italy, don't forget DeRosa, Tomassini and Bertoletti . All would make excellent but perhaps expensive choices at £2k+
Second-stream are the likes of Merlin and Litespeed - still expensive, but perhaps their reputations aren't quite as good as they would like you to think they are - effectively the same as they're built in the same factory. Enigma are also an option too. £1-2k
Finally, you've got the likes of Setavento, Sunday and Van nicholas et al at the 'budget' end of the ti market, i.e. <£1k using frames built in China/Taiwan - but you can get good deals on custom. A final option is if you're really strapped is to get Xi'an Tiatanium in China to build you a custom - they are the factory that make the Setavento frames, amongst others. I have a Xi'an custom and for the money, it's excellent - $500 for custom ti. There's probably some i've missed, but really comes down to how much you want to spend and the one that captures your heart. for me, it would have to be a Bertoletti or a Tomassini - not common and real 'classics'

eh

Lets face it titanium frames look dated and scream the 90's, with only a couple of exceptions.

Personally if I were getting a custom frame I'd want to visit the builders and most Ti builders are based outside of the UK, so instead I'd get a steel Roberts that I'll be good for years.

If I were really pushed for ti I'd say Serotta, the likes of Seven and IF are too mtb orientated for my liking.

Barney 2

What about Enigma or Condor?

mattdavies

Cheers all, thanks for the input.

eh - you're right i would love to visit the builders but as you said they tend not to be in this country. A steely was another consideration and would probably serve the purpose just as well. But i've always fancied a ti frame, and want something, without sounding a little wrong and perverted i can fall in love with everytime i ride it (is that a really wrong thing to say?)

maddog 2

Seven

probably


although the VN bikes looks good and are much cheaper

wildmoustache

i have some agreement with Eh that Ti doesn't really float the boat aesthetically.
Why? Well, the frames all kind of look the same, and second, you have to have a fork that doesn't match ... same old black fork with silver frame...

Ok, i know there is loads of craftsmanship and they can be amazing frames so don't flame me!

of the ones i've seen, I though the De Rosa Titanio is the most beautiful. Custom geometry available as it should be at that price.

stoobydale

Argon18.

mattdavies

I can understand eh's and wildmoustache's point of view, they can look all the same and maybe a tad boring, but the devils in the detail. I guess in say 5 years time it will still look as good as a brand new frame - silver frame with black carbon fork - timeless. Thanks for replying though.

andyp

The aesthetics of titanium frames are all in the understated look they have. The whole point of titanium as a frame material is that it lasts for aeons so naturally it'll look dated if you keep it for a long time. I think it depends on your views on fashion, i.e. fashion is temporary but class is permanent.

Anyway, the quality of the ride is something to behold so who really cares if the frame is still considered to be fashionable?

giant_man

Have you looked at Kent Eriksen cycles too?

mattdavies

Cheers guys, loving the feedback, never heard of kent eriksen or nevi but just googled them and they seem really cool. AndyP love your style

infopete

Hi,

I've got a Merlin Cielo..... so pretty and a dream to ride. Though I am not sure if they are made anymore.

My touring bike is an Omega Axis and I believe there is an Enigma equivalent. It's a great bike and I've done several thousand touring miles on it.

If I was buying custom I'd also look at the Van Nich with 6/4 ti.

Pete

DouglasW

Ti against "plastic" - surely Ti wins every time if you are looking for a bike for life. Classic underastated looks and handles like a dream. De Rosa or Tommasini should be the choice, proven track record over time and better than the American big brands.

pliptrot

Isn't there an argument between the use of 6/4 titanium and 3/2.5? The former is very, very difficult to work with and the latter less so, which explains the omnipotence of 3/2.5. Surely anyone who can build with 6/4 should get principal consideration??

Steve GT

I love my Airborne Zeppelin and also dont think it looks outdated. Looks as good now as it did the day I bought it more than 2 years ago.:D
There was a long thread about Litespeed ti frames cracking on this forum a few weeks ago. So I would stay clear of Litespeed frames as the general concensus was that they had a design flaw.

notsoracy rich

I have a VN Zephyr which I bought a year ago to use for road racing. After a years use its the perfect frame-stiff but comfortable, handles well.

You say you want something for club runs/long rides. have you looked at the VN Yukon which is more of an audax frame-ie: fast but takes mudguards and ,I think, 700-25c tyres.

I am still trying to justify a Yukon as a winter bike as I like the ride of the Zephyr so much.

Rich.

eh

Just wanted to say that frame material choice does not make a long lasting bike. All 4 of the main materials if built well and then looked after will last more than long enough. The main problem eventually being it hard to get parts that fit the old standards and give performance levels near that of more modern bikes.

st199ml

I own a Moots Compact. It is my bike for life without a doubt. Fabulous ride, beautiful frame.

eh

That bike just proves my previous point that they look dated and horrible. I'm sure it probably rides decently, but that is one ugly bike especially the front end.

Also how flexi is it around the BB area? because those tubes aren't exactly fat and titanium is known for being overly flexi.

aracer

I'm with you, eh. Not quite sure how a ti frame makes a bike for life, unless of course you're happy in 20 years time with having the equivalent of what a 531c bike with 6-speed down tube shifters is now. I'd put money on most people's "bike for life" being anything but.

mm1

Burls www.burls.co.uk reviewed on London Cyclesport his steel frames are excellent and his TI is made in the factory that used to produce Ti for Colnago (not cheap generic Chinese frames)

portuguese mike

eh wrote:

That bike just proves my previous point that they look dated and horrible. I'm sure it probably rides decently, but that is one ugly bike especially the front end.

Also how flexi is it around the BB area? because those tubes aren't exactly fat and titanium is known for being overly flexi.

Well i don't think it's an ugly bike, even if i'm not a fan of the forks, Moots look fabulous in the flesh and are supremely well made and they are a great ride. ST199ML is clearly a man with taste having what appears to be a cyrus audio system instead of some ponced up piece of tat from Bang and Olufsen which proves he values substance, performance and quality over style (marketing guff). Jeez by you're standards my bike probably looks pre war and ugly because it doesn't tubes the diameter of a transatlantic gas pipe.

greg roche

Hi,

I own Sunday Bicycles - following this thread with interest after a glass of wine (hey, it is Friday and nearly winter!). I think all the brands mentioned are worth a look, and as far as the aesthetics, well yes, ti frames look like metal frames because thats what they are - there's no point in monocoque extravogance because it doesn't really add anything with the material. In fact even integrated head tubes are a mixed blessing on ti because they usually need to be machined from a block in ti and are therefore expensive and often heavier. We use a machined out version on the Silk Road Pro giving extra stiffness, but it's advantages are constantly discussed internally...

I thought i'd just add a comment - someone above said something to the effect that 'building in 6al is more difficult than building in 3al ' etc - yes, it is, though the difficulty of welding Ti is often overstated as i understand it. The difficulty is actually to do with creating a stable, inert environment in which to do the welding. Do that well, and the welding will follow.

6al is often more expensive due to a combination of difficulty to work with, the fact that the material costs more itself, and the commercial perception that its 'better' because it's lighter. 6al is lighter - that is to say that you can build a lighter given frame from 6al ti than you can from 3al ti BUT it will be more flexible. It's stronger, but its more flexible. It's for this reason, i suspect, that Litespeed put their sponsored pro riders on Siennas rather than Ghisallos - they need a stiffer frame.

In our first year, we've used 3al. That's mainly because of my racing background and, frankly, a conviction that ride quality, stiffness and accuracy is more important than 50gms weight saving. However, we are working on a ti time trial frame for 2008 that uses 6al for the top tube. This is because 6al can be manipulated more easily (it's more malable) and is therefore useful for making aero shapes... so we choose to use a material in a utilitarian way, not for fashion. Interestingly, the same factory that makes our 'budget' (its ok, i'm not offended!) ti frames will be making the 6al utilising time trial frame. And the build quality remains excellent even if it is (gasp) made in China.

I'm not the techy here, Iain, my brother is. But i hope that the layman explanation is useful. I think that all Ti brands should be encourages that there's still a strong belief from customers and would-be customers that the material has clear benefits and advantages.

Whatever you choose, i'm sure you'll enjoy the buzz. Oh, and watch out for Monday's Child, our 2008 flagship, which will retail at £1499 frame only. Mine is the best bike i've ever had. Etc etc..

Greg

portuguese mike

Greg,

Great explanation and lovely looking bikes, i think the matt finish with the red graphics looks excellent, very classy. If only i hadn't just bought ny dream bike, who knows?

jimwin

Blonde wrote:

Van Nicholas have been given good reviews. RoadcyclingUk review of the 'Yukon' here: http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/news/artic ... 31/v/1/sp/

The link is interesting - the VanNic Yukon can take Campy brakes.. whoopee :-) My other distance frame had too long a drop and needed RX100 brakes (and hence nasty Shimano pads).

For the original poster... the Yukon is what you want IMO. I've posted before that this is a great distance bike. Not full on touring, but a fast paced audax machine. But it does have fittings for a rear rack if you ever need to do lightweight touring.

A good stiff frame with an almost perfect ride and great handling, especially on fast downhills. My old audax frame was Reynolds 853 steel but this is way better.

Hope this helps,

JimW