Rip Off Britain

larmurf

I thought things were changing, I really did!!

Looking at the various internet bike shops to see if any Autumn bargains about
and came across Trek 5.2 Madone Triple Road Bike 08 in Onyx Carbon/White
Thought that is one nice bike but price £2300 bit more than I would like to pay.

Decided to check what it was going for in the good old U. S. of A.
First dollar site that came up on Google (the poetical Mike's Bikes)
was selling it for £1675 - going on today's roughly $2 to £1 convertion rate -
and a price I might consider.

Now that is a pretty large 28% difference So who is profitting at our expense
Trek, main importing agents, Trek dealers? My opinion is they all are and each blame
the others. Meanwhile as we have been doing for years we sit back and do nothing
about it. Wasn't there a parliamentary committee going to sort all that out about 10 years
ago?

PrettyBoyTim

the £1675 doesn't include sales tax. Add on 17.5% to that, and it's £1968. Still a difference of £340, but not quite as bad as before.

nicklouse

is the 1675 including the 15% import tax? and then the Vat. and then shipping?

Dene1

You need to be careful when comparing with American bikes.
I was in Florida in 2005 and visited a Trek store and was surprised to see the price differential on a Trek 1500, however on closer insoection it was not a like for like comparison as the American spec had a 105 groupset as opposed to the Ultegra groupset on the UK spec.
I am sure you have cheked this but just thought it worth mentioning.
Fancying a 2008 Madone myself let me know how you get on if you go for it.

aracer

Just to complete the sums others are alluding to:

£1675 + 15% import duty = £1926
£1926 + 17.5% VAT = £2263

You see the price really isn't actually that different at all, given the one in a UK shop will have the duty and VAT paid on it. Only Rip Off Britain if you object to having an NHS, welfare state etc. (which is what that duty and VAT pays for).

acorn_user

Sales tax in most US states is around 5%. You have to watch for spec changes too. The euro Cannondale range is totally different for example.

I doubt that the Trek dealer is profiteering either. Bikes typically have quite a low mark up.

But it is frustrating that far eastern goods cost a lot more in the US than in Europe. But just be thankful that 1000 pounds is not a typical price for a custom steel frame! If you want good value for money in the UK, buy a UK made frame like a Mercian!

larmurf

aracer wrote:

Just to complete the sums others are alluding to:

£1675 + 15% import duty = £1926
£1926 + 17.5% VAT = £2263

You see the price really isn't actually that different at all, given the one in a UK shop will have the duty and VAT paid on it. Only Rip Off Britain if you object to having an NHS, welfare state etc. (which is what that duty and VAT pays for).

Who said anything about importing? I am talking about buying and cycling in USA
And as far as your pompous little sermon goes I don't object to supporting the NHS and
Welfare State and have probably paid a lot more money towards them then your have.
What I do object to financing are reckless wars that kill and maim thousands of people.
Wars that were justified by deliberate lies and false information

Please Note

craigenty

Come to France and buy some Kysriums with Michelin tyres on.

Then you won't be saying Rip off Britain!

Craig

mr_hippo

So if you are not talking about importing - Trek are made in the USA and have to be imported, be it by an individual or a company - you must be talking about moving to the USA. If you are moving to the USA, why are you concerned about UK prices?

aracer

larmurf wrote:

aracer wrote:

Just to complete the sums others are alluding to:

£1675 + 15% import duty = £1926
£1926 + 17.5% VAT = £2263

You see the price really isn't actually that different at all, given the one in a UK shop will have the duty and VAT paid on it. Only Rip Off Britain if you object to having an NHS, welfare state etc. (which is what that duty and VAT pays for).

Who said anything about importing? I am talking about buying and cycling in USA

In which case make sure you include provision for private health and social insurance in your budgeting for when you move there.

I don't think YOUR little sermon about what you're happy for your taxes to go on has any place in this forum. This government were voted in by the people under the electoral system we have - live with it or leave (BTW in case you get any wrong ideas I'm not a Labour supporter, just happy that our system is better than most of the alternatives). Maybe if you plan on going to the US you should consider what proportion of their tax dollars goes on supporting wars. Or maybe you could go to France where they don't support wars and see if you can get your bike bits any cheaper. Complaining about the differences in taxation between different countries for b its to support your hobby is pretty shallow IMHO.

I don't know how you have any idea what I've contributed towards the welfare state. Maybe you're simply older, in which case I hope you're happy that I'm funding your retirement without any prospect of being able to get similar money out of the system myself when I get to that stage.

larmurf

quote]
I don't think YOUR little sermon about what you're happy for your taxes to go on has any place in this forum. This government were voted in by the people under the electoral system we have - live with it or leave (BTW in case you get any wrong ideas I'm not a Labour supporter, just happy that our system is better than most of the alternatives). Maybe if you plan on going to the US you should consider what proportion of their tax dollars goes on supporting wars. Or maybe you could go to France where they don't support wars and see if you can get your bike bits any cheaper. Complaining about the differences in taxation between different countries for b its to support your hobby is pretty shallow IMHO.

I don't know how you have any idea what I've contributed towards the welfare state. Maybe you're simply older, in which case I hope you're happy that I'm funding your retirement without any prospect of being able to get similar money out of the system myself when I get to that stage.[/quote]

[size=18]I have found in life that people who say 'In my humble opinion' are usually far from
humble about their opinion. Your latest rambling diatrible merely confirms my opinion
that there is little point in debating with pople who don't listen to or read carefully
the other person's point of view

As for your funding my retirement - please don't be an ass![/size]

Big Red S

Given the title, I really shouldn't have expected something worth reading...

aracer

larmurf wrote:

quote] there is little point in debating with pople who don't listen to or read carefully the other person's point of view

So what is your point of view? That it's a rip off to have to pay tax if you don't agree with some of what the tax gets spent on (that pretty much summarises what you've said in this thread)?

So who is profitting at our expense
Trek, main importing agents, Trek dealers? My opinion is they all are and each blame
the others. Meanwhile as we have been doing for years we sit back and do nothing
about it. Wasn't there a parliamentary committee going to sort all that out about 10 years
ago?

We've actually done a pretty good job of answering your original question - none of the above are profiting at your expense - it's going as tax to the government. However you don't seem to like that argument, so I'm just wondering with reference to your point about listening to other people's POV, are you a pot or a kettle?

cougie

Cant see that its necessarily a rip off.
Why would product x be the same price in all countries ? Different taxations, average incomes, specs, market strategy all play their part.

Not keen on Treks anyway...

ut_och_cykla

Pistols at dawn chaps?

This is a biking forum remember - and whilst you're concerned about the prices of bikes and bits (not to mention choice of products) try living in Sweden for a while (20 years!).
People don't earn a lot more than elsewhere, pay marginally more tax(and cash upfront for visits to doctors etc!!) but bike bits are excrutiatingly expensive and limited in choice.

Quite a few people I know have bought on line from the states - if they avoid the import tax and VAT its not too bad but if the package gets stopped by Customs & Excise the price quickly gets juicy!

People who bought cheap booze (online from Germany) had it confiscated and even tho' the EU has ruled it was wrong they never got their booze or compensation for the loss!

So there!

pliptrot

Well, to go back to the original point, I'm a Brit and live in the US. As a result I need, occasionally, to buy stuff in shops here. Prices for components (particularly consumables like tyres) are significantly higher than in the UK. I buy virtually everything mail order from the UK, or when I'm there visiting. For some reason some (and only some) complete bikes are available very reasonably here (for example see bikesdirect.com). However, if you're after something European (particularly the prestigious brands) then it is much cheaper to shop abroad. (Ironically, bikesdirect.com sells predominantly Motobecane bikes, but the name is as close to France as they get).

Now, if the US dollar continues to decline in value (chance of making political point side-stepped) then this may change. And it will, of course.

acorn_user

I dunno. Some parts are way cheaper over here too. On the other hand, my team can mail order Michelin tyres from probikekit for less than the wholesale price here.

I hate having to pay "brand name experience" money for european products, but it's there. A Tomasini costing 800 euros in Germany costs close to 2000$ here...

But $700 for a good intro bike? That rocks.

Pliptrot, how are LBS service charges? They are steep here in central Virginia.

baudman

Britain? You should look at the prices of stuff here in Australia! My mate put together a CX steed, and ordered all of the bits over the net from Britain. Cheaper than what he could have got it for WHOLESALE here in Australia.

pliptrot

I've only used LBSs here in Houston for fitting headsets and wheel building, and in both cases I didn't think the charges were too bad. I think it worked out $25 per wheel to build (labour only) and a slightly lesser charge to fit a headset. Certainly I can recommend an excellent wheel builder in one of the shops. I didn't think that inordinate by any means, but I did pay $4 for a Shimano chain pin, finding out about 2 weeks later when Performance Bikes opened just down the street that a pack of 5 pins costs $5 there!

Philip Davis

Last week I was in NY and I bought a Swobo Obis. Its £445 in UK (www.stif.co.uk), but I got it for $700 plus 8% sales tax. I brought it back in a bike bag so didn't pay any shipping, etc (Aer Lingus didn't even charge me for the extra luggage). Not a huge saving, but pretty significant I think.

aracer

If youi'd paid tax on that Obis, rather than smuggling it, it would have cost you more than buying in the UK - hardly rip-off Britain.

cabledonuts

I was looking at frames recently and was looking at the competitivecyclist.com website with the $ being so weak against the £. Had enquired with them about shipping certain brands abroad as I know some manufacturers put restrictions on which countries retailers can ship to. I had been looking at the Cervelo R3 but they're not allowed to ship from USA to UK. Ridley don't have any restrictions so I looked at the Ridley Noah frameset @ $3150 (£1560). In UK it's around £2400(RRP). Shipping is $119 with UPS. I contacted UPS about the charges and they worked it all out for me. Can't remember the exact figure but was around £350 for the VAT, brokerage fees, etc. $3150+$119 = $3269 (£1618) + the VAT etc @ £350 = £1968 for the frame. Saving over £400 on the UK RRP. That's a sizeable chunk of wedge to save and well worth buying from USA.

top_bhoy

aracer wrote:

If youi'd paid tax on that Obis, rather than smuggling it, it would have cost you more than buying in the UK - hardly rip-off Britain.

How can you smuggle through customs a bike in a bike bag ? If false declarations were made, that's a different matter!!!

top_bhoy

baudman wrote:

Britain? You should look at the prices of stuff here in Australia! My mate put together a CX steed, and ordered all of the bits over the net from Britain. Cheaper than what he could have got it for WHOLESALE here in Australia.

I agree baudman - It was a bit of an eye opener to see just how big the price differential is between what I could get cycling stuff for in the UK and how much I would have to pay for it in Oz. That said, this is comparing the Oz LBS against the UK internet shop. If you pitch the UK LBS against the UK internet shop, I would imagine there is a similar price differential. Having browsed some, purchasing from Oz internet sites are rarely cost effective against the Oz LBS.

However, its my pocket which the spending money needs to come out of and the price differential from the Oz LBS and the UK internet shop is often so considerable that I end up buying from Ribble, Parker, CRC, etc.

alfablue

Top_Bhoy wrote:

aracer wrote:

If youi'd paid tax on that Obis, rather than smuggling it, it would have cost you more than buying in the UK - hardly rip-off Britain.

How can you smuggle through customs a bike in a bike bag ? If false declarations were made, that's a different matter!!!

Wouldn't it be the case that you failed to declare something that should have been declared? When you walk through "nothing to declare" you are infact making a statement to that effect...

not that it bothers me - good luck to you.