Anyone else laughing at how much of a mess Formula 1 is?

jimmythecuckoo

This McLaren thing is brilliant entertainment and as a cycling fan I think it is brilliant that their sport is such a joke right now.

All those high and mighty F1 petrolheads in offices all over the country who smugly laughed at cycling fans during this summers "Tour of Shame" are now seeing the political manoeuvring in their processional sport and hanging their heads.

This decision is akin to Rabobank being chucked out of the team competition of the Tour while the Chicken could have raced on.

Farce

daniel_b

Nope not laughing, I love F1/Motorsport and all forms of cycling, plus loads of other sports.

Both at the mo they are a bit of a farce.

Both should be settled out on the road, and justice will out eventually.

Dan

DavidBelcher

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

This decision is akin to Rabobank being chucked out of the team competition of the Tour while the Chicken could have raced on.

Farce

It's mostly a constructors' squabble - I would've likened it more to, say, Trek nicking ideas off Cannondale, but pro cycling doesn't seem to suffer much (if at all) from issues relating to bike firms "borrowing" each other's innovations.

David

jimmythecuckoo

I just can't believe (having listened to Eddie Jordan on 5live) that two men i.e. Max Mossely and Bernie Ecclestone can have so much influence on a sporting outcome.

stage_fright

Max and Bernie have a huge level of control, but mostly in the benevolent dictatorship mould as they have been key in building Formula One (even by at times holding back other levels of the sport, hence there is no 'Formula Two') into the financial colossus that it is.

There will also be levels of politics and discussions going on regarding this case that we will never hear about - it is possible that Fiat may have hinted at pulling Ferrari funding unless the original hearing was overturned, or even pressure form sponsors etc. The main goal of those involved is to maintain the staus quo and keep the revenue streams that run throught the F1 and make it the cash cow that it is.

As an aside - during the recent green protests at airports etc, I thought the bravest thing anyone did was to chain themselves to the gates of Mr Ecclestone's own airfield...

jimmythecuckoo

I am just glad his rumoured interest in buying Arsenal died down. I couldn't imagine Ecclestone being involved in the ego-fest that is Premiership football.

term1te

Maybe he can pump some of McLaren's 100 million into his new toy, QPR?

nwallace

Stage Fright wrote:

Max and Bernie have a huge level of control, but mostly in the benevolent dictatorship mould as they have been key in building Formula One (even by at times holding back other levels of the sport, hence there is no 'Formula Two') into the financial colossus that it is.

F2 and F3000 still exist as formulas just GP2 is being given the slot F3000 once held in the grand FIA scheme of things probably because Bernie and Flavio designed it.

Touring car racing and Rallying are much more relevant to the average car buyer but the FIA seem to take little interest in them.

daniel_b

Touring car rocks, just need a handful more contructors, like in the early 90's, and it will once again be the best TC championship out there.

stage_fright

True about there still be F3000 cars etc about - but if F3000 and now GP2 had been allowed to use the 'Formula Two' tag then they would be much easier to market for sponsorship and comemrcial purposes - and thus more of a commercial threat to F1. When sportscar racing grew and gained manufacturer entries in the Group C era of the late 80s early 90s - the FIA changed the regs to Formula One style engines and strangled it before it could tempt prospective manufacturers from thier prime championship.

Not been to a BTCC meeting this year (will be at WTCC at Brands tho) so can't comment on this season, but recently has seen some good racing - to be honest you will see better actual racing and overtaking at almost any UK motorsport event then you will see in most GPs.

Anyone else be at Silverstone this wekend for the LMS?

Burton

I'm laughing! As an employee of one of the teams below McLaren, we are hoping that their loss of points will mean we finish one spot higher in the championship and hence get a larger bonus!
I expect however that our bosses are currently thinking up a way of re-writing the scope of the bonus scheme......

On a wider note it's a farce, quite possibly influenced by threats from Ferrari/Fiat to withdraw. I doubt there are many teams that don't know something about another teams car, can't see how it would be of any real use unless you copied the entire car because these days they are desined as a complete package.

jimmythecuckoo

It does all seem a bit petty. Some guy was on tv saying that all teams have detailed photos of all their rivals cars with a view to taking the best bits for themselves next season. I must admit to having never thought of that, but it would appear to be an accepted common practice.

SteveR_100Milers

nwallace wrote:

Stage Fright wrote:

Max and Bernie have a huge level of control, but mostly in the benevolent dictatorship mould as they have been key in building Formula One (even by at times holding back other levels of the sport, hence there is no 'Formula Two') into the financial colossus that it is.

F2 and F3000 still exist as formulas just GP2 is being given the slot F3000 once held in the grand FIA scheme of things probably because Bernie and Flavio designed it.

Touring car racing and Rallying are much more relevant to the average car buyer but the FIA seem to take little interest in them.

second that, its a shame that there isn't more/better media coverage. Maybe they think we aren't interested, or maybe we just aren't...having said that, and this is somewhat heretic on a cycling forum, I prefer watching F1 to the Tour of Poland any day. Now imagine getting away with with the Old C+ ers in cake stop!

Eurostar

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

This McLaren thing is brilliant entertainment and as a cycling fan I think it is brilliant that their sport is such a joke right now.

/quote]

Actually It's the most exciting season for years, largely because of Lewis and partly thanks to the spying scandal. It's incredibly watchable - especially the last race where Lewis pulled off 2 of the all time great overtakes. Pro cycling is BEYOND a joke now...it's such a mess.

McLaren will come out of this smiling. They've already won half the $100m fine in prize money this season, and they'll make up the rest from extra sponsorship and probably by getting the fine reduced on appeal.

RedAende

Ferrari were very dubious all through the Schumacher years and now that Mclaren are spanking them they get upset.

I cant see Mercedes accepting this, there must be a lot of political threats going on behind closed doors.

As for F1 in general, I started going to Le Mans a few years ago and much more relevant than F1 cars.

ricadus

Alonso doesn't come out of it well either – he's implicated as possessing some of the confidential material. From the Beeb:

"The emails show unequivocally that both Mr Alonso and Mr de la Rosa received confidential Ferrari information via Mike Coughlan.

"Both drivers knew that this information was confidential Ferrari information and that both knew that the information was being received by Coughlan from Nigel Stepney," the report states.

In what is being viewed as the most damning section of the report, the FIA has published an e-mail exchange between De la Rosa and Alonso.

"All the information from Ferrari is very reliable," De la Rosa wrote to Alonso on 25 March in an exchange about the Ferrari's weight distribution.

That, and his tactics in the qualifying session a few races back, where he blocked Hamilton for enough time in the pits to scupper a possible pole-position run, suggests he is determined to win at any cost.

nwallace

RedAende wrote:

As for F1 in general, I started going to Le Mans a few years ago and much more relevant than F1 cars.

Yes because LMP cars are so not just Single Seaters with wheelarches :P

Though I suppose since most are customer cars, I could in theory buy one put it through an SVA and drive it on the road. What do you mean Radical are there already?

Brains

Glass houses and throwing stones etc

The TdeF was not far short of being a complete farce on a number of occasions recently due to doping. I can imagine the petrolheads thought that equally amusing. However we do seem to have the last laugh

ricadus

Brains wrote:

However we do seem to have the last laugh

Until the Landis verdict anyway...

Rob Sallnow

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

It does all seem a bit petty. Some guy was on tv saying that all teams have detailed photos of all their rivals cars with a view to taking the best bits for themselves next season. I must admit to having never thought of that, but it would appear to be an accepted common practice.

There is more to it than just copying a nose winglet or some venting on a sidepod after seeing an effective looking example in photos from the race. It helps if you know these things in time to test and make your own version of them. Most of the difference between the teams is how they are getting the best from the tyres....for example some of the the evidence mentioned the drivers discussing known weight distribution of the Ferrari.

richk

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

I am just glad his rumoured interest in buying Arsenal died down. I couldn't imagine Ecclestone being involved in the ego-fest that is Premiership football.

Where are Queens Park Rangers these days? (Checks: Lower end of Championship)

How long with Ecclestone's cash before they are in the premiership?

Mark Alexander

2 seasons before QPR are at the bottom of the Premiership, 3 before they're 2nd behind Liverpool!!