Integrated headsets

richardjallen

After tightening the headset on my road bike at the weekend I've looked into the difference between integrated and non-integrated headsets. Although I initially thought I had a non-integrated I now know its an integrated.

I've read the argument against integrated on the Chris King site and its very convincing. They don't seem like a good idea if the frame can be irreparably damaged over time. But their use is so widespread, even in very expensive frames.

To make matters worse forks appear to be either integrated or non-integrated and if a manufacturer drops one it seems to be the non-integrated version. Is the difference just cosmetic? Could you use an integrated in a non-integrated headset?

nicklouse

be aware of the Zero stack headset as well. where there are cups that are pressed into the head tube and then take the bearings.

integrated and convential are not cross compatable. But some companies did spacers that could go into a Zero stack head tube and then a "standard" headset could be fitted. a very poor solution that always creaked.

a final thought is the change in length of the head tube as the bearings would now both be external. geo change and fork change.

richardjallen

I also read about zero stack/internal headsets which sound similar to conventional ones and much better but I thought none of the variations were interchangeable.

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Monty Dog

Zero stack aren't very common on road bikes - more on MTB's where the headset takes a bigger hit. Integrated headsets are a good idea on aluminium alloy and carbon frames because you don't get the radial stressed from the pressed cups. However, I've got an integrated headset on one bike that now creaks annoyingly because of wear in the headset cup - Loctiting the bearings in does help but I can live with it as it was cheap on ebay.

richardjallen

Its a carbon frame and I take your point about not stressing the headtube by pushing a cup into it but then I can't see that carbon would withstand the abuse from the bearings moving about either. Once you loctite the bearings in doesn't that make them difficult to get out and defeat one of the proposed advantages of an integrated?

nicklouse

Monty Dog wrote:

Zero stack aren't very common on road bikes -

i only deal with one Road frame company and they use Zero stack in all there frames. Road-mtb-BMX but again as they are hand made and will do custom sizing they are not tied to standards.

and the frame that came with the converter rings was a giant of some sort. infact most of the giant frames in the shop that year had them.

richardjallen

nicklouse wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

Zero stack aren't very common on road bikes -

i only deal with one Road frame company and they use Zero stack in all there frames.

What company is that.

Also what's the answer to the fork question? Is an integrated version of a fork just cosmetic differences as CK suggests: "Also, the crown of the fork needs to get larger so that it is flush with the bottom of the head tube. This change to the fork is nothing but window dressing, no additional strength or stiffness."?

nicklouse

richardjallen wrote:

What company is that.

racebike




you can see the cups allready pressed in place. the frames come with headsets unless ordered without.

re your fork question sorry cant answer that.

but here is a built one.

pieinthesky

I am fairly certain (I have ben told by a reliable source but have not tried it) that a fork designed for a fully integrated headset will fit on a standard aheadset.

The only difference on the fork is that the Crown diameter is larger on an integrated fork so that it blends in to the head tube. From a quick look at my bikes I would suggest that the fork crown diameter on the integrated fork is very similar to the diameter of the lower race on a standard headset and will therefore look OK.

If this is difficult to visualize, send me an e-mail and I will do you a sketch.

Monty Dog

Virtually all integrated forks will work with an conventional aheadset - there are some like Look which come with built-in crown race, so would only work with certain brands of cartridge headsets - the only difference is purely visual, with integrated forks having a flared crown to match the bigger headtube.

As long as you use the right grade of Loctite i.e. not the permanent grades, removing the bearings is no problem and is probably good engineering practise. Interesting some of the newer carbon frames e.g. Trek and Specialized are now seating the BB and headset cartridge bearings directly into the carbon frame - regardless of Chris King's claims. Interesting whether a knackered bearing seat would count as normal wear and tear?

richardjallen

pieinthesky wrote:

I am fairly certain (I have ben told by a reliable source but have not tried it) that a fork designed for a fully integrated headset will fit on a standard aheadset.

The only difference on the fork is that the Crown diameter is larger on an integrated fork so that it blends in to the head tube.

Thats what I read as well.