Expensive bikes
Comments
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Not much better, but the parts are likely to be better. Unless you are at pro level the betterment is slight. It's up to you, it's nice to have a high end bike, all depends upon what you want to spend.0
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[quote="fossyant"]Not much better, but the parts are likely to be better. Unless you are at pro level the betterment is slight. It's up to you, it's nice to have a high end bike, all depends upon what you want to spend.[/quote]
That depends on what you go for!0 -
The Law of Diminishing Returns applies. A £500 bike will be twice as good as one costing £250, but one costing £3000 will only be a little better than one which costs £1500. As you go up the price and quality scale the cost of every minor improvement is magnified.0
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OK I have a top end steel bike and a training bike that's one down the range (i.e. Columbus SLX and Dura-Ace vs 653 and Ultergra)
The better bike (to buy now would be $4000) vs the $2000 training bike isn't greatly different - yeh it rides nicer, it works smoother, it's stiffer and a better climber/descending bike, but it's not massively different - over the $2000 / £1000 the amount the bikes perform better isn't huge.
As smoking joe says the Law of Diminishing returns applies. Which one do I like the best, well that has to be the 'best' bike that was custom made. Is it any faster than the training bike, a few seconds maybe over an hours ride, that's it !
I wouldn't get hung up about it, it's the engine that's important !0 -
That's not really a meaningful comparison - Columbus SLX is 15 year-old technology and will have nothing like the feel or handling of a modern carbon bike- it will weigh about 19-20lb whereas a top-range carbon bike will be 15-16lb and will feel far more stiff and direct. Whereas today's £1500-2000 bikes are getting pretty good, they will lack in areas such as wheels and all the finishing kit. At the higher price point, people are prepared to pay a premium for certain brands and pick a few bespoke parts to make the bike a bit more individual. Finally, a top range bike and groupset is far more durable than mid-range - quality of finish and materials means that parts last a lot longer.Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..0
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The bottom line has got to be that it's better to spend your time training (and losing a bit of lard) than lash out a load of dosh for a minimal improvement.0
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Money spent on a trainer or Nutritionist and then getting a £1000 bike would make a lot bigger difference me thinks than getting a £3k bike."I hold it true, what'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost;
Than never to have loved at all."
Alfred Tennyson0 -
I agree with the people here - the difference would be minimal. But my view is if you can afford a bike that costs three, four or five thousand then bloody well done, go and get the most shiny, in your face model you can afford. You earned the money, you spend it on what you want.
Crash 'n Burn, Peel 'n Chew
FCN: 20 -
Are expensive carbon frames better? Most defintely. Studies show that for every
$500 more that you spend on a bicycle the satisfaction factor rises exponentially.
The more you spend the more satisfied you will be, simple as that. The reasons behind
these phenomena are very complex. Basically, what it all boils down to is it's sort of
like the idea that a clean car runs better. Everybody thinks it's true because the mind
is fooled by the beauty of it. So obviouslly the prettier the bike the better it will ride and
the faster it will go, just like a clean and waxed car. How else do you explain people
pimping out their bikes. The better it looks the faster it goes. This is a known
fact in many peoples minds, however untrue it may be.
Dennis Noward
Toledo, Ohio0 -
I'm really enjoying your contributions to this forum, dennis. Please don't let any of the people with no sense of humour who don't like your posts scare you off
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There is another factor to this. The better you believe something is, often measured by the money you'll spend on it, the better it becomes, to you. I know you can't compare bikes with drink, but I saw a case study where a brewer was having a hard time selling their mid range "west country" beer. They changed the image by rebranding it as an "Irish" beer and upped the price, and everyone loved it. In blind taste tests no one could tell the difference (its the same beer), but put the price on the can and suddenly the expensive beer tasted better. If they made people buy the beer at the higer price, it tasted even better than the cheaper one they were given.
Get two identical bikes and sell them for different prices, the person buying the more expensive one will almost certainly find their bike superior to the cheaper one. A example of a Veblen good, for all you economists out there.[/url]0 -
The bottom line has got to be that it's better to spend your time training (and losing a bit of lard) than lash out a load of dosh for a minimal improvement.
I was buying a bike for £850.00 just a few weeks ago and the guy was showing me ones for £1,200.00. He explained that they were however many kgs lighter. I then looked at my beer belly and thought that those kgs wouldn't really make that much difference.0 -
i've got one with record one with ultegra and one with sora.
diminishing returns is the boringly correct answer. on the sora tank i wouldn't be able to keep up on some club runs ... i would get dropped by the strongest attacks. on the ultegra bike i'd just about keep up ... on the record bike (which weighs 6.5kg) i can not only keep up but win.
for road racing there is a good argument for a very light, stiff bike, but for most riding, including sportifs i think trading off weight and £ can be done without much penality at all. and if you can increase comfort into the bargain (e.g. more comfortable saddle /wheels), then that might even be better.
keep it under 8kg and it's fairly competitive.0 -
Hear hear! Good advice... oh and once you do, be prepared for everyone and anyone to stop and ask you all about the bike whenever you stop anywhere.But my view is if you can afford a bike that costs three, four or five thousand then bloody well done, go and get the most shiny, in your face model you can afford. You earned the money, you spend it on what you want.
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Absolutley!!!Crash 'n Burn, Peel 'n Chew
FCN: 20 -
It also depends on how and what you measure. Obviously a £4k bike isn't going to be twice as fast as a £2k bike and all other comparisons are going to be subjective (apart from weight but that's related to how fast the bike is).
I've recently got my dream bike and no, since then, i don't enjoy riding 'twice' as much as i did on my old bike (just under half the price) but it is faster (about 2 mins an hour), it's way more comfortable, looks way nicer and i love having it. Taking all those things into account i think, for me, it was worth every penny.
i think it's also worth saying that i hadn't done my research i could easily have spent the same (or more) on something far less suited to me that would've been a waste of money.pm0 -
It was a cold, dark and very very wet day. I had come to watch my brother race. After a couple of laps a leading group of 5 men emerged with a lone teenage rider a little way back. This teenager was riding a battered up raleigh massif with his dads leather motorbike gloves on - it was bitter. You could see his bike struggling. Every time he passed the line everyone cheered him on. He finished 5th and after the winners the organiser invited him forward for a huge cheer. That day the conditions really took control - there were so many riders with top end bikes finishing down the field. My brother finished 12th and he was on an standard kona lava dome. My point is an average rider with a pro bike might gain a few places in a race compared to other average riders but top local, club and pro riders will beat you on anything. Its nice to see the flash bikes but the rider is where it counts.0
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Darrenov wrote:It was a cold, dark and very very wet day. I had come to watch my brother race. After a couple of laps a leading group of 5 men emerged with a lone teenage rider a little way back. This teenager was riding a battered up raleigh massif with his dads leather motorbike gloves on - it was bitter. You could see his bike struggling. Every time he passed the line everyone cheered him on. He finished 5th and after the winners the organiser invited him forward for a huge cheer. That day the conditions really took control - there were so many riders with top end bikes finishing down the field. My brother finished 12th and he was on an standard kona lava dome. My point is an average rider with a pro bike might gain a few places in a race compared to other average riders but top local, club and pro riders will beat you on anything. Its nice to see the flash bikes but the rider is where it counts.
Absolutely, of course it is but if it makes you enjoy your ride more and you want to/can spend the cash on some top kit then i think it's usually worth it. Unless you're buying with the expectation that it's going to turn you into the next TdF winner which of course it won't.pm0 -
I agree0
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I have 3 bikes which range from £500 to £1800 if they had been bought new
which they were not.
Just as happy on the Sora equipped Allez as on the Dura Ace Giant Zero
But am still lusting after one of those new sloping bar Madones.Mahatma Gandhi was asked by a British journalist what he thought of Western civilisation. "I think it would be a good idea," he replied.0 -
Above the "mid" price range what you are buying is cosmetic. About a decade ago the cycle industry realized the value of branding and marketing and we all fell for it. I understand that C+ recently reviewed a bike costing 10 grand, and of course found it perfect. Here's betting exactly the same machine in Halfords with different stickers would get 8/10, or maybe 7/10 if it was significantly cheaper.
If you can tell any difference between Ultegra and Dura Ace, Chorus or Record, Ribble or Colnago frames, then you must be the emperor with clothes. Most folk see otherwise.
And -let's face it- there's little enough information to allow us to make an informed choice, particularly when buying frames. the industry has known for a long time how easy it is to forge a perception of quality correlating with price. They tell us little else.0 -
pliptrot wrote:Above the "mid" price range what you are buying is cosmetic. About a decade ago the cycle industry realized the value of branding and marketing and we all fell for it. I understand that C+ recently reviewed a bike costing 10 grand, and of course found it perfect. Here's betting exactly the same machine in Halfords with different stickers would get 8/10, or maybe 7/10 if it was significantly cheaper.
If you can tell any difference between Ultegra and Dura Ace, Chorus or Record, Ribble or Colnago frames, then you must be the emperor with clothes. Most folk see otherwise.
And -let's face it- there's little enough information to allow us to make an informed choice, particularly when buying frames. the industry has known for a long time how easy it is to forge a perception of quality correlating with price. They tell us little else.
Ahem, at the risk of taking this all too seriously, that ain't necessarily so.
My expensive bike (a waterford) is so unmarketed that most people have never even heard of it and i can promise you that you can tell the difference. Ridden back to back with my cheaper bike (a 'dale R900) over anything other than a glass smooth road and you'd have to have elephant hide on you're backside not to tell the difference.
And while i agree that there isn't much difference in performance between groupsets from the same manufacturer (or between things like bars and stems) i don't think that's the case for wheels where, by and large, you pretty much get what you pay for and you definately can tell the difference.
none of that, of course, precludes the fact some stuff out there probably is a rip off.pm0 -
I have never had the opportunity to ride a high end 4-5 thousand dollar bike but would the ride be noticably better than my 2000 dollar carbon frame bike
What's better?
Faster?
More comfortable?
More reliable?
Better because everyone is watching you on your 'posh' bike?
Worse because everyone is watching you on your 'posh' bike?
What rides do you do?
Long days away carrying lots of gear?
Time trials?
Road races?
Commuting?
Would spending that amount of money spoil your enjoyment of the ride because your children have no shoes and your wife is not happy about this? (Some are like that). Or is it just a small part of your disposable income that you would not miss unduly?
Until you can say what would make a ride better for you this question cannot be answered completely.
So, I can definitely say, without equivocation or doubt - it depends._______________________________________
I know I'm alright, the voices tell me so.
_______________________________________0 -
I have a Specialized Langster (plus child seat) and a Serotta Legend Ti with Dura Ace.
On my commute I'm only 3 km/h faster on the Serotta, about 7%. I enjoy both bikes but the Serotta gives me a thrill to ride and in my opinion is worth every penny. Maybe I should upgrade the wheels?0 -
Portuguese Mike,
I am in the market for something special. I would love to hear about your research, and wher do "waterford" come from?Dan0 -
flattythehurdler wrote:Portuguese Mike,
I am in the market for something special. I would love to hear about your research, and wher do "waterford" come from?
My 'research', as far as it went, conssited of trying out a cervelo R3 and a moots vamoots as well as the Waterford R33. the latter two from my LBS Rock n' Road in southampton (who also deal with Parlee). so it wasn't super exhaustive by any means. What i can tell you is that the R33 felt like nothing else i've ridden. in absolute terms it not as fast as the cervelo (but not by much) but at least on a par with the moots and with a significantly better ride than either. it also handles briiliantly on fast descents. in short after riding one i had to have one.
Waterford are a small company from Wisconsin USA that make custom built steel frames. they do have an off shoot company called gunnar that make frames with the same tubing but off the peg and are therefore cheaper.
The R33 is their top of the line road frame made form True Temper S3 tubing and mine (semi compact geometry, 57cm theoretical top tube) weighs in at 3.1lbs. they do a bewildering aray of colours and paint schemes so you can really customise it although that does add a fair bit to the price. also they're pretty quick for custom frames mine took only 5 weeks from order.
the most important thing, though, if you're thinking of spending a large amount of dough is to try before you buy because all the bikes i tried out had very distinctive characteristics.pm0 -
With rocket ships they put on bigger engines when they need more power. You can't do that with cycles (you're the engine, and that's it), so you have to fettle a bit and save weight. So it is very important how it's put together.
And it ain't rocket science.
Anyone can build a rocket.0 -
I can't build a rocket.
Can build a bike though, even if the wheels come in kit form - hence you're right about it not being rocket science.0
