car vs cycle arguments

Gambatte

Problem with being on several forums. I've been looking on here for this thread to find I'd started it on another one.......

Ah well, here goes - again


This might have been brought up before, but just a thought.

We have all these arguments about who has 'rights' on the road. Some of us get into arguments on other non cycle specific forums, with the usual 'get cycles off the roads' type threads and posts. It usually revolves round VED/tax/insurance etc and everyone getting tarred with the amount of RLJ type activity.

What came to mind last night was the usual response when you tell people you commute by bike. 'I couldn't do that, too dangerous'.

Why too dangerous? Do they think their actions would endanger them? Problems with other cyclists?

I reckon most people are too scared to ride on the road because of the attitude/skill level of a proportion of car/van drivers. This could also explain why we get a proportion of new, occasional, short distance cyclists who always ride the pavement as opposed to the road

adifiddler

I have found this is the quickest way to end an cyclists are a menace discussion.

It goes something like this...

Irate person... Cyclists are dangerous, they cause problems on the road, i pay road tax, cyclist should not be allowed on the roads (you get the idea)


Me... I cycle to work and ride almost everywhere, do you cycle at all.

Irate person... No you would not find me cycling on our roads its way to dangerous.

Me... Oh dangerous. Why?

Irate person... Because of idiot drivers (they normally go on to say more but i am not listening at this point.

Me... Thank you, my case in point, drivers cause the majority of problems on the road.

I walk of at this point, leaving them contemplating there admission.

Jeremy Parker

Gambatte wrote:

Problem with being on several forums. I've been looking on here for this thread to find I'd started it on another one.......

Ah well, here goes - again


This might have been brought up before, but just a thought.

We have all these arguments about who has 'rights' on the road. Some of us get into arguments on other non cycle specific forums, with the usual 'get cycles off the roads' type threads and posts. It usually revolves round VED/tax/insurance etc and everyone getting tarred with the amount of RLJ type activity.

What came to mind last night was the usual response when you tell people you commute by bike. 'I couldn't do that, too dangerous'.

Well, at least it's not as dangerous as walking. The latest figures ought to be in Social Trends 37, but my broadband link seems to have gone all slow on me, so I'll leave it to you to look it up

Jeremy Parker

Jeremy Parker

Jeremy Parker wrote:

Gambatte wrote:

Problem with being on several forums. I've been looking on here for this thread to find I'd started it on another one.......

Ah well, here goes - again


This might have been brought up before, but just a thought.

We have all these arguments about who has 'rights' on the road. Some of us get into arguments on other non cycle specific forums, with the usual 'get cycles off the roads' type threads and posts. It usually revolves round VED/tax/insurance etc and everyone getting tarred with the amount of RLJ type activity.

What came to mind last night was the usual response when you tell people you commute by bike. 'I couldn't do that, too dangerous'.

Well, at least it's not as dangerous as walking. The latest figures ought to be in Social Trends 37, but my broadband link seems to have gone all slow on me, so I'll leave it to you to look it up

Jeremy Parker

Ah, it came through at last. Latest death rate figures , from 2004

walking 36.7, cycling 34.7, per billion km

See table 12.18, page 167

Jeremy Parker

ash68

agree with points made.People who complain about cyclists behavour will not cycle on the roads because their fellow car drivers make it too dangerous , slightly ironic isn't it. Unless you drive a car & cycle (not at the same time though ) on the roads you don't see things from both points of view. That is what I tell friends /workmates who just drive cars and always complain about getting stuck behind a cyclist on the way to work.

dondare

Traffic accidents kill about 100 cyclists each year.
Heart disease kills about 100,000 people each year.
Therefore it's 1000 times more dangerous not to cycle than it is to cycle.

ash68

Good point,well made. or to put it another way, too many lazy lard arses who are frightened of a bit fresh air continue to eat and drink themselves to an early grave.Or is that being too harsh

dondare

ash68 wrote:

Good point,well made. or to put it another way, too many lazy lard arses who are frightened of a bit fresh air continue to eat and drink themselves to an early grave.Or is that being too harsh

Actually, alcohol, for all it's faults, improves lung function and gives protection against heart disease. It does, however, increase your chance of being killed in a road accident.

nickcuk

Statistics schmatistics

1. If you do nothing in terms of exercise and live the lard-arse way of life, you have x% chance of dying as a result of your lifestyle and y% chance of dying because of an accident with another road user

2. If you cycle 1500 miles per year and still live a lard-arse way of life of life, you have a x/30 % chance of dying as a result of your lifestyle and a 3y% chance of dying or being injured (debilitating) because of an accident with another road user.

3. If x > 10y, you are quids-in cycling 1500+ miles a year

4. x is actually 413y so the benefits of cycling 1500 average miles in a year are over 40+ times as beneficial as the average negative potentials aspects of cycling

bryanm

Claims about not being insured are a red herring. If you damage someone elses property you are liable to pay for it - whether you are insured or not.
VED disk is another red herring. Ask them how much a VED disk would cost for a bike if calculated on the same basis as a car. Answer, it would cost nothing as they're calculated according to CO2 emmissions. Bikes would be category A, ie zero charge.

I also usually point out that if I weren't on a bike, I'd be in car, hence adding to the volume of traffic and making their journey slower. I often wondered what percentage of cyclists use a bike as an only means of transport? Yes I cycle, but it's not my only form of transport, so I've paid for a VED disk anyway.

mtb.boy

I hate it when motorists say - "I pay road tax to use the roads, you dont pay to ride your bike so you should not use them".

Problem is they do not realise that road tax does not fund road building/maintainance. It is just another government tax and most of it will go to NHS or Benefit claimers.

ash68

Agree mtb.boy .Daft arguement anyway as alot of cyclists have cars with road tax but choose to use bikes instead. Some car drivers don't have car tax and more importantly some drive without insurance or a valid MOT certificate. I work in the motor trade and it's surprising how many people realise their MOT ran out months ago just because they need one to tax their car.

Cyclegent

Yes I get the 'cycling in London? You must be mad' etc. Followed by 'but you DO wear a helmet, and all the safety gear?' 'NO HELMET???? but...but...' splutter, eyes roll, etc...

To be honest I've given up bothering to explain now. I just point out it takes me 30 minutes to get to work for free instead of an hour on the bus for £2. Mentioning the positive aspects instead of trying to apologise for the negative seems to work better.