Centaur v Veloce

Philip S

Hello everyone

I'm new to this road cycling lark, but keen to get myself a decent bike with the aim of non-competitive long distance rides, including some decent climbs. Ultimately, I'd love to have shot at some of those Pyrenean classic climbs, but that will probably be quite some time away.

With a view to this, I want to get a decent (budget is £1500 - £2000) bike and am in the process of test riding a few options. However, as I haven't been on a road bike in over 15 years, I'm unlikely to notice the nuances/differences that more experienced cyclists will spot, so I'd welcome some advice.

My question is, looking at a number of bike options - eg Wilier Mortirolo - the main difference between bikes appears to be the groupset: Campag Veloce or Centaur. I've seen a lot of complements for Centaur on here and I'm prepared to pay the extra if it gives me a better bike long term, but what exactly are the benefits of Centaur over Veloce?

Thanks
Philip

Dorian Gray

Go to page 21 in this PDF and start reading.

The main difference is the use of carbon fibre in Centaur for the cranks (optional), brake levers, and rear derailleur, lowering weight and improving stiffness. Page 43 of that PDF shows the weights of the individual components of both gruppos. Here are the main ones:

Component: Centaur versus Veloce
Rear mech: 227 g versus 250 g
Front mech: 91 g versus 98 g
Shifters: 334 g versus 351 g
Cassette: 233 g versus 250 g
Crankset: 693 g (carbon) / 828 g (alloy) versus 821 g
Brakes: 334 g versus 349 g

Fit and finish of Centaur is a tad better, but Veloce is also good, high-quality stuff. I suppose the question is, how are you going to feel about that extra 0.2 kg half-way up the Pyrenees?

Whichever you choose, unless you've really very fit, you'd be best with the compact crankset option (called CT in Campy lingo). Climbing mountains with a standard double crankset is a game for the pros.

magliaceleste

I think Philip S has most of it covered but here are a couple of thoughts:

If you're going really long term, a good option would be to try and get Chorus shifters since my understanding is that they have better internal mechanisms. Having said that you can always to upgrade to these shifters later since they're all compatible with one another.

More importantly, I don't think that Veloce has the multishift option of the higher groupsets. That is to say, with Chorus and Record you can shift multiple gears in either direction in one press of the lever/ear but with Veloce you can't. I may be wrong about this, perhaps someone could verify?

Cheers

nick hanson

I'd have thought 2 grand gets you a class bike with chorus,or very nearly.Now that WOULD be a serious bike for the cash.

Philip S

Thanks for the fast responses.

I should really say that £2k is very much top end of top end, and would depend on a far better bonus than I'm likely to get this year ; and on top of that, I don't have much cycling clothing/kit so realistically I'll be towards the bottom of my quoted range (might just scrape to a Mortirolo Centaur if I hide the credit card bills from my better half )...

I'm liking the upgrading capability, so maybe Centaur might be the best place to start.

Definitely going for a compact crankset - I have no illusions about my fitness levels...

magliaceleste

Even for fit people compact is often a very sensible option!

campagsarge

magliaceleste is right about the shifting on Veloce. I got some 2007 Veloce shifters and was disappointed to find out I could only make a gear downshift one at a time. You can sort of get around this by flicking the thumbshift down in quick succession. However, I dont race and could see problems with this when in a sprint for example.

That said, the 2007 Veloce ergo shifters use a much lighter action than previous incarnations and now I have got used to them, I love them.

Campag say that this action on the 'Escape' mechanism for these ergo shifters is like the 'Escape' action on a clock - whatever that means. They say that these shifters require little maintainance at all apart from the odd squirt of oil.

I have Veloce 2007 on my summer bike with a centuar chainset. The finish on Centaur is more shiny. I have Centaur on my winter bike and the shifting action is very snappy.

As has been suggested you can always upgrade but be warned, its like Pringles, once you pop, you can never stop...

RE: Compact chainsets. If you are going anywhere near the Alps or Pyrennes you will need a CT chainset. I went to Chamonix last year in the Alps and used a tripple chainset. I am fit but boy, was I ever thankful of that little chain ring!

magliaceleste

Thanks for the info Campagsarge

Can you do multiple shifts with Centaur? The reason I ask is that I'm think of that gruppo for my winter bike.

campagsarge

magliaceleste wrote:

Thanks for the info Campagsarge

Can you do multiple shifts with Centaur?

No worries. My centaur gruppo is the 2006 flavour before the 'Escape' mechanism came along and this defo multishifts down. From reading the info on the campag products book (that Ribble kindly sent out to me with my new Vento wheels), I suspect that on Centaur 2007 you wont be able to multi shift down.

The blurb states that Centaur also uses the Escape mechansim, whilst Chorus and Record uses the Micron mechanism which: 'Maintain the possibility of shifting to smaller sprockets, even jumping lots of positions in one step...', it seems that the Marketing people at Campag have decided that if you want to race, you have to spend a bit more on Chorus and Record rather than using components from a lower gruppo. Cheeky.

You could ring around a few places though to see if they have any old Centaur 2006 levers in stock.

If you do try the 2007 version though you will be amazed at how light the shifting action is. I can use the downshift thumb lever with my little finger with very litlle pressure. Coupled with the 2007 Veloce rear mech, the whole things is very sweet.

BTW, I like the look of Carbon Centaur chain set for 2008.

magliaceleste

Ah thanks that confirms it. I remember there was a 2007 change on one of the shifters but I couldn't remember which level it was at.

I think I'll have to stretch to Chorus shifters then. I'm luck enough to have Record on my main bike and multishift is one of the main things I really like over the Shimano currently fitted to my winter bike.

campagsarge

Ah Record. I would love to have a Record gruppo but never been able to afford it.

So, does Shimano only allow you one shift up and one down? Is this at Dura-Ace level?

magliaceleste

Yeah I went a bid mad but it is lovely!

Shimano is 1 to 3 up the block and 1 down (including Dura Ace) I also prefer the Campag thumbshifter now I'm used to it. The shape of hoods is the best thing of all.

Cheers

campagsarge

Wow, I never knew that about Shimano. I am surprised.

Yeah Record does look the muts nuts. One day, one day....

acorn_user

The carbon on Centaur won't help with stiffness at all. It's all cosmetic and lightness stuff in shifters and rear mechs, none which really need to be that stiff. Carbon is also not automatically stiffer than aluminium, since a lot depends on how it is treated.

Veloce is available in black or silver this year. It is the only groupset that gives you a completey polished silver this year, since centuar has the carbon jewellry. It would be a fine choice for any bike, and is functionally identical to centaur this year (apart from the chainrings iirc). It would be my choice

magliaceleste

You're right it's not automatic but a better carbon crank can be stiffer.

If you ever saw the propaganda that FSA were putting out (I think it was about their K-Force cranks) they had measured the stiffness of all the cranks. The all carbon Record was the stiffest by miles, which I was surprised about considering how sturdy Shimano cranks are (which I think were second or third). Ironically the FSA cranks were really flexy!

But anyway it's ALL good ultra-torque stuff and the cranksets are available in Compact and Standard.

And from a Value for money point of view I agree with Veloce (maybe with Chorus shifters ;-) )

aracer

magliaceleste wrote:

Even for fit people compact is often a very sensible option!

I'm what most people would describe as very fit (did a short 24 minute 10 the other week, though that's nowhere near my best), but I'm still speccing a compact on my new bike - it's certainly nothing to be ashamed of.

2007 Centaur definitely has Escape, so no multiple upshifts - not sure it's really that big a deal, as Shimano has always worked that way (despite that handicap it's been used to win the TdF for many years in a row).

I'm actually getting mostly Record bits on my new bike, which will come in at under £2k - could do full Chorus for about £150 less. Though that's only by careful shopping around for bits and building myself on a bargain price carbon frame from http://www.pedalforce.com. Fairly sure you could get a nice carbon frame and Chorus for under £2k at Ribble though.

acorn_user

I know this is academic because these bikes are not available outside the US and the company involved does not always have the greatest reputation, but check this out.
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mot ... y08_bd.htm

Full Record bike for 1000 pounds :shock:

campagsarge

Wow. Wonder what the import taxes to UK would be like. What is the quality of the frame like?

acorn_user

The frames should be ok. They are made by Kinesis with Columbus tubing. But they won't ship them. I was just pointing out how cheap bikes can be in the US

campagsarge

That, as they say in the UK is as cheap as chips (fries)!!

pliptrot

There's a shop near me in Houston which is some form of retail outlet for Bikes Direct, or a(at least) has the same products. The frames look to be pretty well made, as, I suppose, most of the Taiwanese stuff can be. He had a full Record (Ritchey WCS wheels) bike (aluminium frame) in there for $1,850, or -these days- about 900quid.

If you only knew someone in the US with a bike box........

thebikeliker

What's an upshift?

No, seriously. Is it when you go from a sprocket with fewer teeth to one with more, or vice versa?