why there are so many waterproof opinions

inaperfectworld

this comes up again and again and there are many different responses; partly there is no such thing as a great waterproof and they are all a compromise.what you want tho does vary according to use, eg a short distance commuter wants something different to someone on a race bike out for a morning's blast. i wonder what people use in summer when it rains persistently for 6 hours on tour: the temperature is likely to be 15 degrees on sunless day so not cold. it rained like this on tour in northumberland last year for 2 days., and i'm expecting plenty of rain in scotland when i am away at the end of sept. a lowe alpine jacket summer shell sweated badly last year the only advantage was to keep off the cold from wetness. in this case a water resistant garment would do the same job but a lot cheaper than an expensive supposedly waterproof jacket. any opinions or advice?

Shadowduck

Nicely summed up. I imagine the people who say "don't bother with waterproofs, better getting wet than sweaty" aren't commuting to work at 6 o'clock on a January morning!

If you're out in the rain for six hours at a stretch, you're probably going to get wet whatever you wear! Maybe one of the rain cape type thingies would keep the worst of it off without getting too sweaty? Plenty of air circulation underneath at least. I've never used one so I'm only stabbing in the dark.

alfablue

I use Paclite for touring and commuting. I don't work so hard whilst touring to get excessively sweaty, but an advantage of a breathable jacket is I believe that when your effort levels decreas (or you stop) there is some potential for drying out whereas a plain waterproof will seal in the sweat. I find Paclite comfy enough and better than the alternative options.

psmiffy

I use 3 layer Gore-Tex XCR - pit zips, double ended zips and poppers to convert into sort of semi - cape thingy I always have options depending on the temperature – I generally wear as little as possible underneath in warm conditions main thing is to get airflow if its warm - however if going up something significant in heavy rain you are always going to sweat but a few “technical” features do mitigate the problem– in my experience the Gore-Tex works best over a large range of conditions – I would never contemplate even riding to work in a boil in the bag thingy

Expensive but if maintained will keep its properties for years – my present jacket is 6 years old and owes me nothing

adifiddler

I have just asked about ventile else where. I would have thought it would have been perfect for touring, extremely windproof and breathable. Quite waterproof if proofed properly and if it does wet out still warm, windproof and breathable when wet. And, extremely tough.

I am surprised no one uses it.

psmiffy

Goretex - if it works why change (although I would be interested in peoples comments about ventile et al)

JustRidecp

The most breathable fully waterproof garments you can buy is Paramo. They dont use membranes like goretex and eVent. I've used paclite, XCR and eVent for mountaineering and paramo has blown them away. They're totally repairable as well with life-time guarantees.

Only thing is though, they're mountaineering garments so not specifically made for the bike. They're more expensive than anything else going but they're ethically made so you're paying for decent wages rather than a chinese sweat shop.

More info can be found here. Paramo

andrew_s

Currently I'm using a Gill eVent jacket that I find works a little better than Paclite. It's also a bit heavier.

Ventile is sort of waterproof - the water doesn't come through, but you've still got a layer of wet cotton touching your inner garments, which does transfer a little dampness. This is why garments that are intended to be fully waterproof are double layer. When wet it gets pretty heavy and stiff.

Paramo do make some garments that are OK for cycling - eg the Velez smock or 3rd Element jacket. They are properly waterproof as far as rain is concerned, but the waterproofing is structural rather than being a membrane, so if you sit in a puddle when wearing Paramo trousers, you'll get a wet arse. They also need looking after to maintain the waterproofing (wash/wash-in reproofer). The big downside for cycling is that they are quite warm, so you'll sweat more, even if it does get out quite easily.

vernonlevy

inaperfectworld wrote:

this comes up again and again and there are many different responses; partly there is no such thing as a great waterproof and they are all a compromise.what you want tho does vary according to use, eg a short distance commuter wants something different to someone on a race bike out for a morning's blast. i wonder what people use in summer when it rains persistently for 6 hours on tour: the temperature is likely to be 15 degrees on sunless day so not cold. it rained like this on tour in northumberland last year for 2 days., and i'm expecting plenty of rain in scotland when i am away at the end of sept. a lowe alpine jacket summer shell sweated badly last year the only advantage was to keep off the cold from wetness. in this case a water resistant garment would do the same job but a lot cheaper than an expensive supposedly waterproof jacket. any opinions or advice?

I've just had two days of persistant rain in France with temperatures of around 12 degrees. It was the first time that i have used my Altura Nevis jacket and found it to be a good compromise. With the arm pit zips open I didn't overheat though I did get ever so slightly damp as I cycled along the Western Front in the Somme.

I've used a apclite in the past or just cycled through drizzle banking on the wicking clothing drying off once the rain stopped. Usually worked. The Nevis is not expensive at around £45.

rampax

I have tried several waterproofs now, all CLAIM to be breathable. The Montagne Featherlite is made of Pertex, which is supposed to be more breathable than Goretex, but I found I still got sweaty in it, and its not that waterproof. It is great as an emergency as it packs down very small, and its of in drizzly waether. My main commuting jacket is an Altura Nevis, which I really like, but you still sweat, even when riding fairly easy. And during REALLY sustained heavy downpours it wets out.
The best thing, is to only wear a waterproof when its actually raining (or freezing cold).
I think that a "fully breathable waterproof" is an impossible dream.

KeithG

I think rampax has got it right, tailor the weight of your waterproof to the ambient temperature and your expected exertion.
eg when I'm on a short fun ride in the summer and it rains, I just get wet and go faster to stay warm. In summer on a longer ride when I might puncture or experience high winds or unexpected cooler weather, I use a showerproof (like the Montane above) and in winter when colder weather is guaranteed, I use Goretex paclite or an Altura cheapy if it's a shorter ride. I keep the expensive Goretex for special occasion and longer rides or touring.

lloyd_bower

I'm a firm fan of Goretex Paclite, it's light, certainly waterproof and breathes reasonably well. I've a pair of the shorts as well, and wearing both earlier in the summer on one of regular constant downpours this year came back totally dry.
I think Paramo is way too warm to be worn on the bike and indeed walking for the summer months. Similarly I'm not a fan of a lighter 'showerproof' jacket, as in a proper downpour you end up soaked and eventually cold too.

alfablue

agree with Lloyd, and PacLite is preferable because of the lifetime warranty which Gore really live up to.

stevercp

after years with a freestyle goretex which was basically worn out
ive now opted for an endura event jacket
this new jacket seems to cope well with very wet weather in scotland
seems to perk up when its ironed this seems to sort out the proofing
so far

graemetherunner

yes it comes up time & time again & every time it makes me chuckle with disputes (none so far) of X being better than Y, when in fact X and Y are the same.

have a read of this to see what I'm going on about (goretex about half way down)
http://www.slate.com/id/2085417/

is it just a marketing con?

Currently I'm using paramo velez for v cold or steadier winter rides or an event jacket for other times of the year when its going to rain all day. But most of the time just a cheapo PU waterproof made by keela (called paclite).

alfablue

graemetherunner wrote:

yes it comes up time & time again & every time it makes me chuckle with disputes (none so far) of X being better than Y, when in fact X and Y are the same.

have a read of this to see what I'm going on about (goretex about half way down)
http://www.slate.com/id/2085417/

is it just a marketing con?

Currently I'm using paramo velez for v cold or steadier winter rides or an event jacket for other times of the year when its going to rain all day. But most of the time just a cheapo PU waterproof made by keela (called paclite).

Hmmm, I found the tests in that article rather silly. The properties of these fabrics / jackets are thoroughly tested by the manufacturers and are cited in explicit performance terms (such as RET number for breathability, and waterproofing to 28 metres head of water) which can be compared between brands. A guy testing them running in a bath, under the shower, does not convince as a rigorous test.

I know cheaper products can perform in terms of waterproofing and breathability as eVent or PacLite (my Altura Reflex jacket was excellent....for a while!) but what other products don't do is guarantee them for life. I have had several Gore jackets for walking and cycling over the years (and Gore-Tex lined walking boots). I have had three failures, some after several years use, and Gore just replaced / refunded me. They will do this for the life of the garment (I presume until you literally wear holes in the elbows). In that light, the extra cost is well worth it as I know I will have a jacket that will last for the long term.

JustRidecp

Aye, I'm a big fan of eVent too.

Steve, mind and be carefull with the ironing - I'm sure you are. Too hot and you'll stuff the fabric. eVent seem to be favouring using wash in repellents such as Nikwax TX direct rather than heat treating with an iron now. Info Here
This statements straight from the eVent website so it seems they're pretty cautious about it as well eVent

I got in touch with Rab for advice on this a wee while ago and they said that they don't really recommend using an iron on their products and wash in re-proofer is the best and safest bet. Down to personal choice I guess. I wouldn't put an iron anywhere near a 200 quid jacket. Washing it and re-proofing every couple of months keeps it dandy

Mapman

just echoing what has been said already really In summer no longer bother with a waterproof Too sweaty clammy and uchy (is that a word? ) Just use a windproof gillet to keep me warm and keep pedalling In the winter because i was overheating cut the arms of my paclite at the elbows which improved matters a little :shock: :

mike kluge

Thanks for posting the link to the article graemetherunner - this is the first time I've ever seen "the truth" in print. I've worked in the outdoor industry for years and have cycled, toured, commmuted, raced, mtb, climbed for all of this time so I feel I have a good idea of what's what.

I really would recommend e-Vent fabric. It does seem to be significantly more breathable than anything else I've tried....including several different varieties of goretex. Try and pick a cycling specific garment that's lightweight. Like it says in the article, don't wear the waterproof unless it's actually raining or you are really very cold. Sadly, I've found that nothing will keep you totally dry if you are exercising, as even the best fabrics can't cope with the moisture that we produce. Finally, having invested in an expensive weterproof don't spoil it all by wearing a cotton t-shirt underneath - I see this a lot and it just doesn't make sense. Polyester is far better, even if it can smell a bit!

onbike 1939

"Breathability" when applied to waterproofs can be misleading. The amount of pressure needed to achieve this, is the crux of the matter. I question whether "breathability" can be had, given this prerequisite by a cyclist. I seem to recall that the pressure required to achieve this is around 3lbs to the sq. inch. May be wrong of course.