Campag Cone Con-Are Campag wheels worth servicing

Ken Night

I posted earlier in the year that Campag charge (through Italian Cycling Products) £12 per cone, for Eurus and Zonda wheels. I've tried hard to get them cheaper elsewhere-Comobike.com/Mercian etc, but without success

I don't mind making a fool of myself, but like anyone, hate being made a fool of.

Campag fan as I am, I have four sets of Campag wheels, and am beginning to feel that the are having a laugh-£48+plus races to service a pr of wheels!

You've got to be joking, when I understand that Easton wheels for example, charge £8 for a replacement cartridge, making it £16 to service a pr of wheels.

2 questions

Why make the wheels serviceable, then make it prohibitive to do so?

What experience do other forrummites have of servicing different brands of wheels?

Smokin Joe

I take it you mean the sealed bearing cartridges in the hub? Bearings are normally a standard item available off the shelf. Why don't you try an engineering supply shop, taking one ot the cartridges in and seeing if they have something the same size from stock?

Monty Dog

If you're talking selaed cartridge bearings, try online sellers or even ebay - you need three dimensions - internal diameter, external dia, and thickness. I got some replacement stainless steel wheel bearings on ebay for £3 when some places wanted £15.

acorn_user

Sounds like he is talking about cup and cone set ups for Campagnolo, not sealed bearings. Campag service parts are pricey in comparison with the sweet discounts we get on the parts and groups from the oem selling types.

Ken Night

acorn_user wrote:

Sounds like he is talking about cup and cone set ups for Campagnolo, not sealed bearings. .

Yes, I am

acorn_user wrote:

Campag service parts are pricey in comparison with the sweet discounts we get on the parts and groups from the oem selling types

As a result, I won't be buying, or recommending Campag wheels any longer

Uranus

Ken Night wrote:

acorn_user wrote:

Sounds like he is talking about cup and cone set ups for Campagnolo, not sealed bearings. .

Yes, I am

Have you tried Whisker's? Usually the best source for small Campag parts.

Uranus

Ken Night wrote:

acorn_user wrote:

Campag service parts are pricey in comparison with the sweet discounts we get on the parts and groups from the oem selling types

As a result, I won't be buying, or recommending Campag wheels any longer

Have you found any other make that is better though? I've had far more luck with Campag spares than Shimano, for example.

If you want truly serviceable wheels hand-made ones with generic spokes and rims and cartridge bearing hubs (e.g. Hope) might be better than ANY factory wheels.

magliaceleste

Sorry chap, I just don't get it. You've got some Eurus wheels amongst others - The Eurus are £400 worth of wheels alone and you're moaning because it cost £48 to get them serviced!?

How many Miles have these wheels done before needing new bearings?

Sealed bearings might only be £16 a pair. Don't forget you'll probably need two pairs on the rear wheel, but they probably won't last as long as the loose cup and cone arrangement - if you regrease your wheels regularly. With sealed bearings you've also got the fun of drifting them out. Something I've only done my various MTB wheels - and it ain't always fun.

fossyant

Spares are expensive - it's frightening really, but that's how the economy works - same with cars.

I'd usually bin the wheels if they weren't that expensive. Higher priced wheels should last though, and are worth repairing !

I've only ever replaced bearings on a Mavic 501 hub'ed wheel and got those from a bearing supplier. My ancient DA 7400 wheels are all still fine, but have been replaced by newer wheelsets.

Ken Night

magliaceleste wrote:

Sorry chap, I just don't get it. .

As said, I don't like to be made a fool of-the cones are the simplest of things, and shouldn't really cost more than a few pence. OK I'd pay £3 happily-twice what you would for the Shimano C cones

One set of wheels is Open Pro on Daytona hubs, and yes, they've done a lot of crappy commuting miles

£12 for a cone, it's a bit like being charged £12 for a coffee in Marco Square

johnfforbes

Campy wheels have a 3 year warranty here in the US. With proper care, yearly servicing, they'll last many years longer than that. Personally I find them substantially superior to anything Shimano produces.

pete.whelan

If you look after your hubs properly (service them regularly and keep them in adjustment), then they should last many years.

Campag cones do tend to be better quality than most, so I am surprised they have been damaged, so can only imply it was poor maitenance.

Ken Night

To add insult to injury, the Khamsin wheels, containing 4 cones can be had for as little as £90.....

I think the good people in Vincenzi, should be told.

DavidBelcher

fossyant wrote:

Spares are expensive - it's frightening really, but that's how the economy works - same with cars.

I'd usually bin the wheels if they weren't that expensive. Higher priced wheels should last though, and are worth repairing !

I've only ever replaced bearings on a Mavic 501 hub'ed wheel and got those from a bearing supplier. My ancient DA 7400 wheels are all still fine, but have been replaced by newer wheelsets.

Hope hubs, as well as the old Mavic and Sachs ones, use a standard SKF cartridge bearing (6001Z or something like that) which is available very cheaply through electronics firm RS. I replaced a bearing on a Sachs hub very easily and at low cost thanks to this source of spare bearings.

David

Ken Night

pete.whelan wrote:

If you look after your hubs properly (service them regularly and keep them in adjustment), then they should last many years.

Campag cones do tend to be better quality than most, so I am surprised they have been damaged, so can only imply it was poor maitenance.

Infer?

I thought there might be a righteous gushing of "disposable componentry", "no-one wants to sell replacement parts"....and I'm disappointed, I hate to throw away repairable kit, because the tiny replacement part is unavailable or prohibitively expensive

This week, I've had to replace a set of Radius V brakes on my daughter's Mtb, as one of the springs had broken-not worth even finding out about a replacement according to the LBS

proto

Ken Night wrote:

To add insult to injury, the Khamsin wheels, containing 4 cones can be had for as little as £90.....

I think the good people in Vincenzi, should be told.

The Khmasin wheels don't have cup and cones, they have cartridge bearings. Only the more expensive Campag wheels are cup/cone.
Also pretty sure that Khamsins are made in the Far East, not Vicenza.

acorn_user

Hey, Xenon, Mirage, Veloce and Centaur in the 2007 line all use sealed cartridge bearings. I htink that the Khamsin (and presumably Vento) wheels use Mirage grade hubs. Peter White of Peter White cycles despises them, but I've no idea why. I have seen no evidence that they are made anywhere other than Vicenza, unlike Mavic which does a lot in Rumania (and good for Roumania too).

Btw, does anybody know how much Shimano cones cost? That would be an interesting comparison, since the big two seem to be the only ones using cup and cone systems anymore.

Uranus

acorn_user wrote:

Hey, Xenon, Mirage, Veloce and Centaur in the 2007 line all use sealed cartridge bearings. I htink that the Khamsin (and presumably Vento) wheels use Mirage grade hubs. Peter White of Peter White cycles despises them, but I've no idea why

I don't know why either but maybe it's because if you bought Centaur hubs last year you got basically the same components as Record/Chorus, this year you get basically the same components as Mirage/Xenon - they should've changed the name of the gruppo.

The Centaur/Record hubs are somewhat lighter than the cheaper ones, they are very low friction and have the best cone adjusters of any hub I've seen.

Uranus

Ken Night wrote:

....and I'm disappointed, I hate to throw away repairable kit, because the tiny replacement part is unavailable or prohibitively expensive

I know the feeling very well . . but I try not to let it spoil my day.

Have you seen this?:

http://www.wheelsmfg.com/products.php?c ... d=hubcones

Might be worth downloading the hub parts info and see if there is anything that matches your requirements - most Wheels Mfg bits are available from Whisker's in the UK, as previously mentioned. If you're not familiar with Whisker's they advertise in the comic most weeks.

pliptrot

It's cynical marketing that's part of this, and costs of production, too. Campag make their own cones, in small batches (it's a relatively small market, after all), which will always put them at a cost disadvantage.

Cartridge bearings are turned out by the truck load by many different companies, and - hey presto - competition at work.

Cup and cone hubs are an inherently better design than cartridge hubs, but if you believe this you're stuck with Shimano and (high-end) Campag. I've made the point before that Campag are not shy when it comes to fleecing their customers, and the simple truth remains that the best hub engineering comes out of Vicenza, but you'll pay for it, and how.

Ken Night

Uranus wrote:

......I know the feeling very well . . but I try not to let it spoil my day.

Have you seen this?:

http://www.wheelsmfg.com/products.php?c ... d=hubcones

most Wheels Mfg bits are available from Whisker's in the UK, as previously mentioned. If you're not familiar with Whisker's they advertise in the comic most weeks.

thanks very much for this-I'm going to pursue it, as a matter of principle

The wheelsmfg business deserves support

campagsarge

Interesting stuff. How easy is it to service the hubs/wheels myself? I have a pair of Vento and Scirroco wheels and would not have a clue where to start.

Would I be better off taking them to my LBS to get them serviced, or is this a job I could do myself? What tools are needed?

Cheers

Ken Night

campagsarge wrote:

Interesting stuff. How easy is it to service the hubs/wheels myself? I have a pair of Vento and Scirroco wheels and would not have a clue where to start.

Would I be better off taking them to my LBS to get them serviced, or is this a job I could do myself? What tools are needed?

Cheers

It's an interesting job, not dead easy perhaps, but very satsifying. In spite of what you reasd above, I like to do mine at least once a year

Dismantle using the exploded diags, in your instructions or on the net, clean, replace at least the ball bearings, regrease, and reassemble.

Getting the right tightness can be tricky-most people like to leave a tiny bit of play, which is probably taken out by the QR when on the bike

Normally, you'll need 2x 5mm allen keys, a small screwdriver or allen key for the compression piece, -depends on the build of your hubs

campagsarge

Thanks Ken, might have a go if I am feeling brave!

Ken Night

Found the cones at less than £8, thanks to Uranus, at Whiskers Cycling

Pete Biggs recommended a certain size/quality of bearings, anyone know if he's still around on the board? or what best to use for Eurus/Zonda?

binlinus

Ken Night wrote:

Found the cones at less than £8, thanks to Uranus, at Whiskers Cycling

Pete Biggs recommended a certain size/quality of bearings, anyone know if he's still around on the board? or what best to use for Eurus/Zonda?

Hi

Don't know about Pete, but I think the quality of Campag bearing s is "25 grade". this refers to their roundness and size tolerance. Shimano bearings are apparently "40 grade". The lower the number the higher the quality and greater consistency between the bearings in roundness and size.

I've been a regular customer of Whiskers for over 10 years and I always get the genuine Campag bearings that they sell. Each bearing race is about £2.50.

Whiskers are an "old style" bike shop and don't have a website. However, you can visit the shop or order a mail-order catalogue from them. Oddly their catalogue only has some of their actual stock.

If you send an SAE to:

Whiskers
684a Goffs Lane
Goffs Oak
Waltham Cross
Herts
EN7 5ET

They'll send you a catalogue which lists the Campag spares.

Bin

binlinus

You really need to look at the Campag spares catalogue to get the right part numbers for the Eurus/Zonda wheels. The bearings are the same as the record hubs (part no RE023). I believe the Eurus/Zonda Hubs are the same as the Record/Chorus/ and (2006) Centaur.

Also Campag front and rear hubs take the same size cup, cone and ball race.

Cup RE124
Cone RE022
Ball race RE023

For each hub you need two each of the above for a complete bearing race service ie a pair of cones, a pair of cups and a pair of ball races. That's about 19 quid per wheel. Those are the only parts you need to replace. However, if the cups or cones are not pitted then you can re-use the old ones and just replace the ball race. In which case it will only cost you a tenner to service a pair of wheels (4 x ball bearing race @ £2.50)

The beauty of the Campag system is that pretty much all the high end hubs -- front and rear -- all take the same size parts. But you do need to study the parts catalogue on Campag's website to be sure. You also need the instruction manual from their site to take the hubs apart. But as long as you have all this servicing the hubs is very easy with nothing to force apart -- all the parts come apart and go together quite easily.

HTH

Bin

Ken Night

It helps a great deal-just about to call Whiskers

OnTow

Wow - interesting thread - I'll add Whiskers to my list of people to call!
You got a number or a website for them?

Does bearing hardness need to be taken in to account too? Whether your bearings wear the cups, or the cups/cones grind down the bearings!
This was a problem with new trains recently - The wheels were grinding the tracks down and Railtrack had a barney about allowing them on their lines!

I wonder if weight difference is significant?

I read in my repair manual that the cost of the package can be influenced by the seals - assuming any seals are used/supplied (just been taking apart and servicing an Ahead-set as it needed adjusting three times last year).

Campy are like any big brand - If you're in a hurry and playing safe, then it may well result in being charged more - However you're guaranteed a minimum quality standard assoc. with the name, as stated, probably inflated by small batch runs, and one would hope, good quality control.

Ken Night

Whisker's mail order telephone 01707 326115. (probably not a lot of good to you On Tow-though your profile doesn't disclose it, you'll be American...and I doubt they'll send stuff over to you if you're Stateside)

A slightly old-fashioned company,...attitude to customer care is interesting in an age when most corporates fall over themselves if the customer bleats

I've been told by them and others that they sell genuine Campag parts

aracer

Ken Night wrote:

On Tow-though your profile doesn't disclose it, you'll be American

How do you work that out, given he mentions Railtrack (who I doubt most septics have heard of).