Dura Ace vs Record

Titanium

Just buy the best. Buying stuff out of patriotism is a stupid idea. You end up with second best goods and the purveyor of lesser products gets rewarded just because they happen to be based near your home. Besides, the Japanese are on the whole a nice, civilized people, it is not like you're buying them from North Korea or Zimbabwe.

aarw

Pagem wrote:

i read a nice quote somewhere:

one looks beautiful and works okay. the other looks okay and works beautifully...

My personal favourite was "no one ever got laid for owning shimano"

Eurostar

I was the Shimano UK Brand Manager. And I didn't get laid the entire time I had the job.

But I was sacked after 6 weeks. True story.

Rob Sallnow

Eurostar wrote:

I was the Shimano UK Brand Manager. And I didn't get laid the entire time I had the job.

But I was sacked after 6 weeks. True story.

Sacked for what? :shock:

Eurostar

For not having any relevant experience. I had never pretended to have any, and was expecting training. I was hired by a director (of Madison, the Shimano distributor) who assumed that because my business card said IBM Marketing Representative that I must be some sort of brand guru. I reported to the MD, who had been on holiday when I was interviewed and hired. When it became apparent that some IBM Marketing Representatives are lowly PC Systems Engineers we had to have a discussion about my future. I suppose the fact that the MD was married to the director who hired me, and that they had recently separated, may not have aided my cause.

The worst bit was that before I started I had paid full retail for a DA groupset, and didn't buy any kit while I had staff discount. I even had to give back my company mountain bike.

kmahony

Slightly off topic, but does anyone know who invented what? I'm generally led to believe that Campag invented most things and Shimano copied and mass produced cheaper, but I guess this is probably not the case?

Have Campag & Shimano led inovations or have other cmpanies been copied along the way?

Eurostar

Shimano have a lot of patents and were first with indexed shifting (1984) and first with integrated brake and gear levers. Campy scrambled to mimic both of these. Nobody else has invented anything terribly significant in components for the last 25 years, except for Look who invented clipless pedals.

top_bhoy

Maybe it's because the bicycle is in essence, a simple piece of mechanical engineering!!!

aracer

Slant parallelogram derailleur was Suntour - or at least they were the ones who managed to patent it. That was one of the most important innovations to make current indexed gears work properly.

Horst Link wasn't Horst Leitner, whatever he and Specialized's lawyers would have you believe.

pliptrot

Didn't Shimano invent dual pivot brakes (or should we consider them a derivation of centre-pulls?).

Campagnolo invented the delta brake, of course, which was an engineering marvel.

I think Suntour deserve a mention in the innovation corner because they made (invented) some great kit, notably the slant parallelogram rear derailleur. I think this had more to do with improving derailleur gear performance than just about anything else. They also used angular contact cartridge bearings which are far more suitable for bicycle hubs than the standard design used today by pretty much everyone other than Campag and Shimano. Shame they've gone out of business.

aracer

Eurostar wrote:

Shimano have a lot of patents and were first with indexed shifting (1984)

Not quite - they tried indexing in 1975, but the first properly working system was in 1984 when the Suntour patent expired and they could use slant parallelograms.

We seem to be thinking along much the same lines, pliptrot

Rob Sallnow

pliptrot wrote:

Didn't Shimano invent dual pivot brakes (or should we consider them a derivation of centre-pulls?).

Campagnolo invented the delta brake, of course, which was an engineering marvel..

A dual pivot brake is a side pull brake.
A Campag Delta brake is a derivative of centre pulls as were the slightly earlier Dura Ace AX and even earlier Modolo Kronos both of which were not as successful or good as the Delta

Rob Sallnow

kmahony wrote:

Have Campag & Shimano led inovations or have other cmpanies been copied along the way?

Simplex invented the cassette hub although Shimano made them popular 30 odd years later.

franklin pierce

Err, the ol' SA hubs were index shifting, albeit not with a "jumper".

Campagnolo did invent the quick release, and for that I thank the old man. He also found time to invent oceans and trees and ducks, so I guess there's a downside to everyone.

Shimano invented the 10mm chainset, to wide acclaim and widespread adoption (it can save you 150 grammes over a comparable 1/2inch (12.7mm) chainset).

And some fellow patented paired spokes in the 1890s, thus bilking Rolf out of all that royalty money.

pliptrot

I love this forum. I've learned more here in the last few days than in years of hanging out in bike shops. Thanks to all who offered their input to my hackneyed and uninspired question.

May the wind be behind you and the punctures only with motorists.

pedalrog

Nobody seems to have mentioned durability between Campag and Shimano. Over the years I have used both but have stuck mainly with Campag because it lasts so much longer. For example my Nuovo Record gears bought in 1978 after experiencing numerous Shimano gear sets which failed; the Campag gears lasted for 25 years and then were only replaced becuase I fancied some new ones. They were sold on and used for a few more years.
Then I had some Shimano spd pedals for my mountain bike last year, I'm now on the 3rd set in just 12 months.
Campag beats everything else, in my opinion. It also looks a whole lot better.

Rob Sallnow

pedalrog wrote:

Nobody seems to have mentioned durability between Campag and Shimano. Over the years I have used both but have stuck mainly with Campag because it lasts so much longer. For example my Nuovo Record gears bought in 1978 after experiencing numerous Shimano gear sets which failed; the Campag gears lasted for 25 years and then were only replaced becuase I fancied some new ones. They were sold on and used for a few more years.

Because it goes without saying!!

When was the last time anyone was spotted riding a bike with 1978 Shimano components!? 1979!!!!!!
Yet I see Campag equipped retro bikes all the time!! 8)

bridboy

With reference to a previous mention about ultra torque and the longevity of the crank connection, I can testify to this personally of about 500 miles. I purchased a 2007 centaur groupset and went for a carbon chorus crank. I was on a 70mile ride and after 50 miles I lost drive from left side as the crank bolt which holds the shafts together had gone. I am now waiting for a replacement to arrive. I am hoping it is down to not being applied with threadlock properly by the LBS.........still a worrying developement though.

Anybody else had this happen to them???? I am happy with everything else and also the crank is excellent with no flex that I have noticed and I am an heavy rider, lets hope the next bolt stays in place.