Carbon wraps

richardjallen

I'm suspicious that the bike I've bought does not really have a carbon frame but has at least an Al seat tube wrapped in cosmetic Carbon and possibly more tubes also wrapped.

There are a few carbon bikes about at the moment for about a grand. I've noticed they all have a frame that appears to be identical except for the paint job. I'm guessing this a frame design owned by a factory and they are produced and badged up accordingly. The bikes I mean are the Raleigh AirLite carbon and a Massi M-Carbon. I've seen the Raleigh in a LBS and the Massi branded frame in an other. There is also at least one other bike with this frame. The one I bought but I'd rather not say the name as the manufacturer reads these forums.

The seat tube is said to have an Al BB shell and Al at the top or the seat tube where the seatpost clamp in. But I'm convinced this is entirely Al because I have shone a torch in and can see the Al sleeve extending far into the tube and If I tap the tube it makes the same sound down the whole length.

This makes me suspicious of the rest of the frame. The tubes are almost plane cylindrical except for some bulges here and there. The bulges look typical of a hydroformed Al frame and the down tube is oversized just like an aluminium tube.

The Massi site also shows an A-Carbon frame:
http://www.casamasferrer.com:89/cm/images/5231.jpg

There's the Al seat tube. And where the head tube section meets the top tube and down tube you can see the bulges I mention. Could that just be wrapped in a thin veneer to make it appear to be completely carbon?

John.T

The blue bits are all Alu and the black bits are carbon. The lugs are a dead give away.

cougie

What did you buy it as and where from ?
Any pics of your frame ?

richardjallen

cougie wrote:

What did you buy it as and where from ?
Any pics of your frame ?

It was bought as a full carbon frame but I decline to say where from. As for pics, the frame is identical in appearance to the M-Carbon or the AirLite Carbon that I mentioned. I've seen all the frames mentioned in the flesh and they are externally idenitcal.

I'm going to abandon this thread anyway. It's just my suspicion about the frame being dodgy. I should have got a Scott CR1or Kuoto Karma instead and been sure about what I was buying.

gkerr4

what price did you pay for it - just cos it isn't a 'full' carbon frame doesn't make it bad??

Why don't you name the company? - no use posting on here if you aren't going to name names - so what if the manufacturer posts on here - they may offer a response to your issue?

Monty Dog

It's pretty obvous to the experienced eye that that frame clearly is a hybrid i.e. aluminium seat and headtubes, with bonded carbon top and down tubes, as well as chainstays and seatstays. As someone says, it doen't make it a bad frame - but if you've bought it under false pretences, then maybe you need to take it up with your LBS. A few years ago, this construction was state-of-the-art and isn't necessarily obsolete. In a blind test, could you tell the difference - does it actually diminish the pleasure of riding the bike at all?

aracer

Maybe http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/details.a ... BBFRAR0900 ?

I'd argue that is deceptive if it is the same construction and the seat tube is alu, as I only make that 6 carbon tubes in that case (unless they're counting the wishbone yoke!)

richardjallen

Monty Dog wrote:

It's pretty obvous to the experienced eye that that frame clearly is a hybrid i.e. aluminium seat and headtubes, with bonded carbon top and down tubes, as well as chainstays and seatstays. As someone says, it doen't make it a bad frame - but if you've bought it under false pretences, then maybe you need to take it up with your LBS. A few years ago, this construction was state-of-the-art and isn't necessarily obsolete. In a blind test, could you tell the difference - does it actually diminish the pleasure of riding the bike at all?

Monty I thnk I have garbled my post and lead you to misunderstand my point.

The A-Carbon frame that I gave a link to is not the frame my bike is made from.
I have not said what frame I have. I can see clearly the A-Carbon is a Alu/Carbon hybrid frame. I suspect my frame is also a Alu/Carbon hybrid that is wrapped in cosmetic carbon to disguise this. I posted the link to the A-Carbon to illustrate my point. It is quite relevant because MassI also sell the M-Carbon which looks identical to the frame of my bike and is probably made in the same factory. I believe these frame designs are owned by a factory and produced for retailers who put their own name on them.

richardjallen

aracer wrote:

Maybe http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/details.a ... BBFRAR0900 ?

I'd argue that is deceptive if it is the same construction and the seat tube is alu, as I only make that 6 carbon tubes in that case (unless they're counting the wishbone yoke!)

Its not that frame. I suppose I should really say what bike it is instead of being vague and everyone else trying to guess.

I'd just rather not discuss it with the people who made it. In fact I don't know why I'm bothered because the only outcome I can see is I keep the frame or change the it for something I have no doubts over. The probelm is I have a seed of doubt in my mind that is slowly growing.

So anyway its a PlanetX mega value carbon jobby. I hope they don't bother posting on this thread. All in all its not a bad bike at all. I think its about right for myself but like I said theres that seed of doubt lurking. I mean if you have not got the real thing then whats the point?

rjsmith

What, one of these - http://www.planet-x-bikes.com/road/index.php?module=announce&ANN_user_op=view&ANN_id=274 ?

Some carbon frames have an alu sleeve inserted in the seat-tube where the seatpin goes. Indeed some Titanium frames have the same. Maybe it's one of those?

I wouldn't worry too much about Planet X's reaction to a question like this on the forum. They are very reasonable people. I'm sure they'd want you to have peace of mind.

cougie

I'm sure its fine - go on the tritalk forums - Planet X are on there a lot of times answering questions.

aracer

Would have been much easier had you mentioned what it was in the first place. Am totally convinced from comments I've seen by Brant elsewhere that it is a proper carbon frame (generic made in China, though there's absolutely nothing wrong with that!)

cougie

If its the one that Rjsmith has shown - then it looks carbon to me. Look at the headtube and the joints ?

Wish he hadnt shown that now - i want one....

richardjallen

aracer wrote:

Would have been much easier had you mentioned what it was in the first place. Am totally convinced from comments I've seen by Brant elsewhere that it is a proper carbon frame (generic made in China, though there's absolutely nothing wrong with that!)

I'm not fussed that its generic or made in China. Anyway I enjoy riding so that's the main thing. I can't expect perfection for mega value.

cougie

I think you can put away the seed of doubt though. Planet X aren't gonna pass a carbon wrap frame off as a carbon jobby.

I'm not sure I've seen a carbon wrap frame anyway - stems and posts yeah - but all clearly marked. (and pretty pointless).

Enjoy the ride - looks a great bike.

gkerr4

it;s full carbon that - and a nice one too - put the seed of doubt away....