[Tyres/Rims] A funny thing happened ...
stonky
Posts: 16
The preamble ...
Hi folks. I picked up a brand new Malt 4 a week ago. This was a quantum leap for me. I started on an MTB in 1987 with an Overbury's Cross Fell. Built like a tank. So much so that it was still my only MTB 'til 10 days ago. So this whole suspension-hydraulic-disc-Aheadset-20zillion-gears and weird-bottom-bracket thing is a bit of a culture shock. I've been doing a fair bit of work on the roads just to get used to the handling, although I have managed a decent off-roader over the Long Mynd. Anyways, today, whilst on a quiet, country lane ...
The nitty-gritty ...
Traveling in a straight line, a loud noise brought me to a full-stop. The front tyre was off the rim, and the inner-tube, still inflated, was wrapped around my forks like a bloated snake. I thought at first I'd discovered a new "air-bag" feature. I deflated the tube, unraveled it, and inspected both the tyre and tube. Both seemed okay. I put it back together, re-inflated, and was about to remount when I saw bulge in the tyre wall. It actually wasn't a bulge; it was my tube poking through a 3cm rip in the wall, just above the rim. Not good. At that point I also noticed that the rim itself was slightly damaged. Now I'm guessing that the rim damage was from rolling along the tarmac, and the tyre damage was from being pinched against the burred rim - since the tear on the tyre is alongside the marks on the rim. Of course, there is another theory ... that the wall was damaged before somehow, and this finally gave out and is what caused the tyre to come off.
I have _never_ had anything like that happen before, and to be honest it hasn't done much for my confidence in the kit. It was fine where it happened, but on a steep descent or a bend it could have been an impressive face-plant. Conversely, I wouldn't expect anything untoward with Merlin's build or choice of components, just because of their reputation.
The kit ...
Standard Merlin build ... Panaracer Cinder 2.1 on Mavic XC717 with LX hubs. Inner is marked as 26 x 1.5/2.125. Don't know the pressure, but not altered since purchase last week - didn't feel particularly soft and certainly wasn't rock-hard. Wouldn't have lost much since I picked it up anyway.
The questions ...
1. What's your best guess at likely causes?
2. Would you chalk it to experience ... or look at changing anything?
Appreciate any advice / guidance!
(Edited to add 'Cinder')
Hi folks. I picked up a brand new Malt 4 a week ago. This was a quantum leap for me. I started on an MTB in 1987 with an Overbury's Cross Fell. Built like a tank. So much so that it was still my only MTB 'til 10 days ago. So this whole suspension-hydraulic-disc-Aheadset-20zillion-gears and weird-bottom-bracket thing is a bit of a culture shock. I've been doing a fair bit of work on the roads just to get used to the handling, although I have managed a decent off-roader over the Long Mynd. Anyways, today, whilst on a quiet, country lane ...
The nitty-gritty ...
Traveling in a straight line, a loud noise brought me to a full-stop. The front tyre was off the rim, and the inner-tube, still inflated, was wrapped around my forks like a bloated snake. I thought at first I'd discovered a new "air-bag" feature. I deflated the tube, unraveled it, and inspected both the tyre and tube. Both seemed okay. I put it back together, re-inflated, and was about to remount when I saw bulge in the tyre wall. It actually wasn't a bulge; it was my tube poking through a 3cm rip in the wall, just above the rim. Not good. At that point I also noticed that the rim itself was slightly damaged. Now I'm guessing that the rim damage was from rolling along the tarmac, and the tyre damage was from being pinched against the burred rim - since the tear on the tyre is alongside the marks on the rim. Of course, there is another theory ... that the wall was damaged before somehow, and this finally gave out and is what caused the tyre to come off.
I have _never_ had anything like that happen before, and to be honest it hasn't done much for my confidence in the kit. It was fine where it happened, but on a steep descent or a bend it could have been an impressive face-plant. Conversely, I wouldn't expect anything untoward with Merlin's build or choice of components, just because of their reputation.
The kit ...
Standard Merlin build ... Panaracer Cinder 2.1 on Mavic XC717 with LX hubs. Inner is marked as 26 x 1.5/2.125. Don't know the pressure, but not altered since purchase last week - didn't feel particularly soft and certainly wasn't rock-hard. Wouldn't have lost much since I picked it up anyway.
The questions ...
1. What's your best guess at likely causes?
2. Would you chalk it to experience ... or look at changing anything?
Appreciate any advice / guidance!
(Edited to add 'Cinder')
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Comments
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nothing wrong in general with what you have.
could have been a poorly fitted tyre?
call up the supplier and discuss the issue."Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
Parktools :?:SheldonBrown0 -
Did ur bike come with these panny tires or the ones with the red/colored stripe on them?
The ones in my pic are the el cheapo OEM tires that Merlin use and the quality leaves slot top be desired to say the least.
Im not gonna say that was the sole cause of ur tire problem but it very well could have been. Better to get a proper retail set and rest easy.0 -
jayson wrote:Did ur bike come with these panny tires or the ones with the red/colored stripe on them?
The ones in my pic are the el cheapo OEM tires that Merlin use and the quality leaves slot top be desired to say the least.
Im not gonna say that was the sole cause of ur tire problem but it very well could have been. Better to get a proper retail set and rest easy.
Can't shed any more light on the problem but it could be the cheap tyres. When I bought my Rock Lobster a few years ago it came with those but the web site picture and the spec at the time suggested the proper folding red ones. I moaned and they sent me some propper ones.0 -
What? What is a slot top, and why would I desire one/it?quality leaves slot top be desired0 -
Translation bot say's,
"quality leaves slot top be desired"
=
"Quality leaves a lot to be desired"
Translation bot ends.Cycle tracks will abound in Utopia. ~H.G. Wells
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x42/ ... 3Small.jpg0 -
Aah.0
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My panaracer Malt 4 build tyres have been fine over the time I've had the bike (800-900 miles). Just changed them this weekend for some Maxxis jobs as they were worn out. My steel bead Fire XC's looked like the 'El Cheapo OEM' type that jayson points the finger at. Mine were great, but I guess Stonky was both unlucky and lucky at the same time. Unlucky that the tyre blew and lucky that he didn't plant his face into the deck :roll:
I read somewhere that the Panaracer's made in Taiwan are the 'El Cheapo' jobs and the ones from Japan are the Dog's. Still, that might just be a load of tosh?0 -
Dodgy brand tyres ... ffs is nothing simple ? :?
Thanks for the replies.
I forgot to say in that the tyres are Cinders, not Fire, but I'm assuming the same principal applies. I bought a 1.8 Kevlar Fire (closest match I could get around here on a Sunday!) yesterday ... made in Thailand [imagines a sweat shop behind Khao San Road]. But my Cinders were also made there. I'd be interested to hear more stories about when a marque tyre isn't a marque tyre!
Having bought a track pump with a gauge yesterday, it also looks as though the tyres may have been way too soft, although to be honest they didn't feel it. So again, that might point more towards roll-off through low pressure - still surprised it happened in a straight line on tarmac though.Red Panda wrote:I guess Stonky was both unlucky and lucky at the same time. Unlucky that the tyre blew and lucky that he didn't plant his face into the deck :roll:
The luck bit ... that's actually very true. 1) Don't believe in the infallability of your kit. 2) Kit might not always be what it seems. 3) I've learnt something about tyre pressures ... i.e. I might have been overestimating pressure by a fair bit ... maybe the biggest lesson of all. Oh and yeah ... it was nice to stay in one piece
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How did you get on with Merlin about the issue? I hope they're being helpful about your damaged 717 rim?
It's interesting that you think the tyre may have rolled off the rim through low pressure Stonky. I've just got a hand pump and am now thinking of getting a track pump too. Maybe I can learn from your experience too matey Which track pump did you get and are you happy with it? 0 -
Merlin were okay (if slightly reluctant) about swapping my tyres out - they also had the bike back because of squeeling XT v brakes (a known fault) and swapped them for XTR's FOC (including delivery and collection) so that was pretty good.Red Panda wrote:How did you get on with Merlin about the issue? I hope they're being helpful about your damaged 717 rim?
As for the 717 rim (I am guessing you mean me) - they still don't know about it because of the BH - will be interesting to see how they react.0 -
Haven't had chance to contact Merlin (it happened on Saturday - they aren't open 'til tomorrow). To be honest, I can't see them being too forthcoming - it's very difficult to prove that there was anything wrong with the kit when it left the shop; I can't see that I've got much comeback. The rim was 'scuffed' for want of a better description. It's still true, and I carefully filed off the bit if a burr that was left - seems sweet enough now.Red Panda wrote:How did you get on with Merlin about the issue? I hope they're being helpful about your damaged 717 rim?
It's interesting that you think the tyre may have rolled off the rim through low pressure Stonky. I've just got a hand pump and am now thinking of getting a track pump too. Maybe I can learn from your experience too matey Which track pump did you get and are you happy with it?
As for the pump, I bought a track and a new hand pump. The track pump is a *cough* Halfords job (the metal 'Bikehut' one). It's fine - comfortable, inflates quickly, easy to read gauge and ... well not a lot more I can say. The only caveat is that it's got one of those attachments that copes with Schraeder and Presta in the same fitting - not sure if the twin-headed types are better. Having said that it coped fine with my Presta. You may well get a better deal online though. The hand pump is a Crank Brothers with a gauge. It's heavyish by todays standards, but a beautifully made bit of kit. The reason for that purchase is that I'm off on a two-week trip, and I figured it would be a good idea to be able get the pressure right ... since I don't seem capable of judging it myself There was about 5psi difference between the readings on the two gauges - not going to worry too much about that.
But I still don't know what actually happened in the first place; whether it rolled off or whether there was a tyre failure. Just got to put it down to experience and learn from it. Unless the same thing happens ... then I'll get mad :twisted:0
