York to Ravenglass by train with bikes

dannygcp

Three of us are planning to travel from York to Ravenglass by train so we can start the Hadrian's Wall cycle route.

There are a number of possible routes all with multiple train changes

York->Manchester->Barrow or Lancaster->Ravenglass
York->Leeds->Carlisle (via Settle-Carlisle line)->Ravenglass
York->Newcastle->Carlisle->Ravenglass

The problem is that all of these involve going on trains which officially only take two bikes at a time. In my experience most guards are usually pretty flexible about this and will allow more on if there is room, though you do occasionally get a guard who is can be really difficult.

Does anyone have recent experience of travelling with bikes on any of these routes. Are there any which we should avoid because there is genuinely limited cycle space, lots of cyclings, or a preponderence of difficult guards.

vernonlevy

dannygcp wrote:

Three of us are planning to travel from York to Ravenglass by train so we can start the Hadrian's Wall cycle route.

There are a number of possible routes all with multiple train changes

York->Manchester->Barrow or Lancaster->Ravenglass
York->Leeds->Carlisle (via Settle-Carlisle line)->Ravenglass
York->Newcastle->Carlisle->Ravenglass

The problem is that all of these involve going on trains which officially only take two bikes at a time. In my experience most guards are usually pretty flexible about this and will allow more on if there is room, though you do occasionally get a guard who is can be really difficult.

Does anyone have recent experience of travelling with bikes on any of these routes. Are there any which we should avoid because there is genuinely limited cycle space, lots of cyclings, or a preponderence of difficult guards.

I'm afraid that there are no guarantees on any of the routes. The train length can vary and with it bike carrying capacity. The bottlenecks are the coastal trains which are invariably the older two carriage combinations with v. limited capacity. If you get the earliest possible trains from York , I have found that the coastal trains are virtually empty as it's after the 'rush hour' you are unlikely to incur the wrath of the guard/train manager.

An Alternative might be to do the ride in the opposite direction and catch the first train out of Ravenglass.

dannygcp

Thanks. You response is really what I has been assuming/fearing.

The problem with getting an early train from York in the week is that these are likely to be packed with commuters at some point in the journey and hence guards are most likely to be difficult.

Will think about finishing at Ravenglass - but it means we potentially have to cyle 180 mil;es into the prevailing wind.

lloyd_bower

I recently went via Leeds & Lancaster to Ravenglass on a friday afternoon to do a two day road c2c from Ravenglass to Robin Hoods Bay. As you say it's not possible to make a bike reservation and there's the official limit of 2 bikes per train. All 3 of the trains were late, and nearly missed the Lancaster train, indeed would have done if it wasn't late as well. The Lancaster train was also full, but thakfully the guard was flexible and did allow 4 bikes on the train.

I certainly think west to east is best, you don't want to be going against the prevailing wind. I think you should try to get a connection that's not doing the last leg in peak time.

vernonlevy

dannygcp wrote:

Thanks. You response is really what I has been assuming/fearing.

The problem with getting an early train from York in the week is that these are likely to be packed with commuters at some point in the journey and hence guards are most likely to be difficult.

Will think about finishing at Ravenglass - but it means we potentially have to cyle 180 mil;es into the prevailing wind.

Now this prevailing wind milarky:

If the wind is in your face for every day and is strong enough to make an appreciable difference to your cycling speed then you will have been very unlucky. I've done LEJOG and JOGLE and had encountered strong headwinds in both directions but not for two consecutive days.

Headwinds do not make that much difference to your average speed unless they are very strong headwinds. Their effects are more psychological then physical. I spent a day and a half cycling into a headwind strong enough for me to have to pedal downhill as I headed to the Mediterranean yet my average speed dipped by only 1.5 miles per hour. It felt much worse than that.

I've done the Hadrians Cycle Route East to West and there's lots of natural windbreaks to protext you from the worst of the headwinds no matter which direction that you chose to ride.

Getting back to your early train from York - it depends what you call early. I'd be talking about catching the 05:26 to Carlisle from York changing at Leeds. Doubt that you'll meet that many commuters at that time.

dannygcp

vernonlevy wrote:

Getting back to your early train from York - it depends what you call early. I'd be talking about catching the 05:26 to Carlisle from York changing at Leeds. Doubt that you'll meet that many commuters at that time.

Hmmm...that's definitely what I call early. Am also bring my, slightly reluctant, teenage son, and during the holidays his idea of getting up early has been to emerge at 11am.

Take the point about head winds and average speed, but even if it doesn't affect my speed that much I find it takes more out of me (though that could be psychological). Round York where I live it is very flat with no windbreaks so you do notice it when it blows - but as you say the direction can and does change even in a day.

geocycle

Tricky route. How about York-Leeds-lancaster (via Skipton)- Ravenglass. There are loads of trains between York and Leeds so you should all get there within a few minutes even if you can't get on the same train. Leeds to Lancaster via Skipton is very quiet in that direction and the staff have always been cycle friendly when I've used them. There seems to be an unnoficial policy of not promoting this line and you will not get it on the nat rail enquiries unless you stipulate via skipton. If they will only take two then it shouldn't be a problem with one of you going via Preston to Lancaster, but I'd hope they'd be helpful. Lancaster to Ravenglass should be OK as again Northern Rail are reasonably flexible on that route (I've certainly been on that train with more than 2 bikes).

vernonlevy

dannygcp wrote:

vernonlevy wrote:

Getting back to your early train from York - it depends what you call early. I'd be talking about catching the 05:26 to Carlisle from York changing at Leeds. Doubt that you'll meet that many commuters at that time.

Hmmm...that's definitely what I call early. Am also bring my, slightly reluctant, teenage son, and during the holidays his idea of getting up early has been to emerge at 11am.

Take the point about head winds and average speed, but even if it doesn't affect my speed that much I find it takes more out of me (though that could be psychological). Round York where I live it is very flat with no windbreaks so you do notice it when it blows - but as you say the direction can and does change even in a day.

If you want to maximise your chances of getting onto a train then the early start is recommended. I speak from experience. I've done the C2C several times and have always caught the 06:00 or thereabouts train to Carlisle from Leeds working on the premise that people like you won't want to emerge from their pits to be in contention for a bike slot. So far my bike has been the only one on the train at that unearthly hour. Catching a 9:00 train to Settle in July proved to be a nerve wracking experience. There were five cycles waiting to board when I arrived at Leeds station. Thankfully it was a double length train and the guard found a slot for me. My pals who were hoping to get on at Shipley had to resort to using their cars to get their bikes to Settle because there were no local parking spots otherwise they's have been scuppered if they'd been totally reliant on catching the train.

Your son can catch up with his sleep on the train. Moderate headwinds are more of a psychological drain then a physical and like I said the notion of a prevailing wind does not mean that the wind will behave itself on the day(s) that you ride.

I know the lanscape around York/Selby/Thorn. I cycle out there from Leeds on a twice monthly basis. There's pleny of natural windbreaks on your proposed ride apart from a stretch near the est cost which is very flat, very low lying and is liable to flooding at high v. high tides.

thebikeliker

Just try to make sure you do not clash with the Sellafield workers going to work. Usually between 7:00 and 8:00, Monday to Friday. Some of them are pig ignorant and are likely to lean on your bikes, crash their bikes onto yours, play with levers etc, then lie across two seats and pretend to be asleep so you don't get to sit down, the Barrow to Ravenglass train is worse than the Carlisle to Ravenglass one.

Yes, I do have a beef with them. Years of traveling on these trains has left me bitter.

Best laugh I had was when the rail company checked everyone's tickets because there had been so many complaints that there were not enough carriages. Turns out that there was enough carriages for the tickets sold but so many were traveling without paying that the train was always packed.

I know this is not much help to you but I feel better now. Sorry.

vernonlevy

thebikeliker wrote:

Just try to make sure you do not clash with the Sellafield workers going to work. Usually between 7:00 and 8:00, Monday to Friday. Some of them are pig ignorant and are likely to lean on your bikes, crash their bikes onto yours, play with levers etc, then lie across two seats and pretend to be asleep so you don't get to sit down, the Barrow to Ravenglass train is worse than the Carlisle to Ravenglass one.

Yes, I do have a beef with them. Years of traveling on these trains has left me bitter.

Best laugh I had was when the rail company checked everyone's tickets because there had been so many complaints that there were not enough carriages. Turns out that there was enough carriages for the tickets sold but so many were traveling without paying that the train was always packed.

I know this is not much help to you but I feel better now. Sorry.

That's unlikely to be an issue as it's nigh on impossible to catch a train from Carlisle between 7 and 8 in the morning without leaving York the night before......