Lambeth vs Vauxhall bridge/toucan crossings (London)

Totalnewbie

Apologies for London-centric post.

I gave Lambeth bridge a go today in place of Vauxhall bridge. I found it much better, it only has one lane each way so cars seemed less inclined to treat it like a motorway (still had a rubbish cycle lane but I got away without using that much). Just had to be a bit careful on the roundabout at the end. Will see how it is on the way back too.

The only thing is, getting onto the Albert Embankment from South Lambeth road involves either going around the whole of Vauxhall gyratory with the cars (sod that, it would be just as stressful as the bridge and take longer) or going my normal shortcut through the bus/cycle tunnel, then over a toucan crossing filled with peds onto Albert Embankment. The cyclist in front of me almost hit a ped, there were just so many. Toucan crossings don't really work sometimes do they...

I noticed some cyclists do a right turn there, but I don't think you're supposed to...(there are bollardy things stopping other traffic from doing it). Anyone know?

homercles

I'm not sure I know the bit of Vauxhall Cross you're referring to (I come from South Lambeth Road then head along Albert Embankment towards Waterloo, past Lambeth Bridge) but I think the advice here has to be that you do whatever feels safest. It's a bit of a nightmare and much of it is counter-intuitive.

I come from South Lambeth Road to the first set of lights before you go under the bridge then basically act as a pedestrian for that stint - you go past the FIRE nightclub and then under the bridge to the right of it, down what appears to be a one way street coming the opposite way. As you get there there is actually a cycle lane heading in the opposite direction, so I presume it's legal (and there's no other way of getting to it) and as planned.

Totalnewbie

Thanks Homercles, you go the same way as me as far as you've said. But what do you do once you get out of the tunnel?

To go right towards Lambeth bridge as I did this morning, there are some bollardy things blocking the right turn down the embankment, or you can use the toucan crossings on the right and tangle with the peds. What do you do?

I saw some cyclists doing the right turn by going through the bollard things, and given the choice I would rather avoid the toucan crossings, but am not sure the right turn is legal?

Jacomus-rides-Gen

Hi TN, glad to see your still trying

That gyratory is a mess, and driver aggression runs so high as nobody seems to know what lane they are supposed to be in. Nasty.

Personally I would avoid it completely and instead do this, as it will let you sustain a higher speed, and also drivers have less in the way of lane changes to worry about so should be less aggressive.

homercles

Oh OK, so if you've gone past FIRE and down the invisible cycle lane (it's only possible to find it by trial and error - poorly signposted, congratulations Lambeth council) then you come to a pedestrian crossing outside Vauxhall station. Cycle through it (as a road user) and then you'll see on the next island another pedestrian route leading to it. Through that and then just as you come to the main road there's a small cycle path which guides you on to the isalnd and up to the toucan crossing.

As I said, I think as the paths guide you here they want you to use this route over the toucans and though it's not ideal it's gotta be safer than the roads around this bit. Two toucans (via two islands) and your on Albert Embankment.

Totalnewbie

Oh yes I'm still trying Jacomus...despite the fact that the cycle2work scheme seems to be taking forever to implement (how long does it take?!) so I'm still on that boneshaker bike!

I don't go round the gyratory; there is a very handy shortcut through a tunnel where only buses and cycles are allowed, as Homercles described. The route you've posted looks like it is a bit longer, but I am keen to avoid having to slow to walking pace to safely get through all the peds safely if I'm forced to go the toucan way.

Thanks Homercles, you've just described the way I went this morning. Those islands were packed with peds though and I didn't really like it, which is why I was looking for alternatives.

Jacomus-rides-Gen

Oh dear, soon though you will be flying along on a thouroughbred 8) Do you know what you are looking for yet?

Here is my estimation for your route this morning, and if that is roughlt correct, the alternative route I suggested is about 1km longer.

Good luck finding a solution.

Totalnewbie

I don't know about 'soon', things don't seem to happen quickly here! I like the look of the Specialized Globe Comp as I want to stick with hub gears, but I haven't had a chance to test ride one, I don't know which retailer my employer will use. And I'll be getting the bloke's version so it will be big enough, none of this dropped crossbar stuff!

I will give your route a try. I'm a bit obsessed with changing routes looking for the perfect one. Can often be found poring over a map with highlighters! It's sad really.

homercles

Not a bad route that, Jacomus - my only worry is it looks like it has a couple of potentially difficult right turns across oncoming traffic on the way back which I like to avoid. Going via Vauxhall means the route is pretty much left all the way.

Might give it a whirl on the way home and see how it affects the avg speed. Saying that, I had very empty legs this morning so unless the route change you suggest has become downhill 1:5 in the last few months I suspect not much!!

Totalnewbie

I'd just come a different way on the way back Homercles, back along the embankment to Vauxhall, although it may be tricky getting into the right lane for South Lambeth road depending on how busy it is. My routes there and back are completely different due to various one-way systems I come across.

Jacomus-rides-Gen

Something I learnt to make RH turns easier along there is, where possible, follow a car making the turn. Take the middle of the lane behind the car, watch the oncoming traffic to see that there will be enough of a gap for the both of you. Then accelerate hard behind the car through the turn.

Just be very careful that the car isn't nipping for a gap that your acceleration can't get you to.

star_rover

Have you tried the gyratory? Was it that bad? I know it can be intimidating but I go round it everyday and once you've got the lanes sussed it's not too bad.
For what it's worth from the lights at the end of south lambeth road (OK, I edge slightly ahead of the lights, but don't jump them) I stick to the right. AS you know the traffic is usually held back about 25m behind you. When the lights change I make for the lane on the far right, and claim it (primary pos). At the next set of lights (assuming you have to stop), again, still at the far right. The ASL box is on the far left but that only of use if your heading for the vauxhall bridge lane. But from the RIght when the lights change it relatively easy to shoot for the middle lane (marked Waterloo).
Most of the traffic is to your left heading for vauxhall bridge and anything going straight on can pass you in the right hand lane, then you're through the lights and onto albert embankment.
It is daunting the first couple of times but I've never, ever had a problem.
Alternatively from south lambeth road you could turn off left into Miles rd, then right onto wandsworth rd, which will allow you to come at the roundabout from a different direction. However, from my usual position I notice the cyclists coming from this direction getting a bit of grief from the traffic behind chasing them down. Though there is a bus lane from this direction you could use.
I don't know where you start your journey from, but you could try Queenstown rd, then chelsea bridge. After you're over the bridge it's a decent long, fast stretch along the riverside.

Porgy

I hate those Toucans. Some people get completely a.r.s.ey about cyclists being there - even if its legal and however considerate I'm being - I get the ones who deliberately put themselves in my way. There's not usually much I can do - I stop and wait for them to move - too many people - not enough space.

Even if I'm at the front waiting for the lights to change so I can get away from the crowd quickly - some a.r.s.e goes and stand in front of me!!

This consideration business should go 2 ways - there's a definite 1 or 2% of pedestrians who just like causing trouble for cyclists. I wonder if they're Merc drivers!

Jacomus-rides-Gen

star_rover
Queenstown rd, then chelsea bridge. After you're over the bridge it's a decent long, fast stretch along the riverside.

Queenstown rd, and over Chelsea bridge is awesome. I come out of battersea park and go over chelsea bridge in the mornings - the run along embankment from there is fantastic.

Totalnewbie

Hmm star_rover, you make it sound so easy. Perhaps also worth a try one day when I have my better bike, half the problem is that current bike is old, heavy and slow so not as good for mixing it up with traffic.

I just don't think bikes and peds mix well on the ultra-busy crossings. I feel the same about hyde park corner which is why I go round the outside now. It's a nightmare trying to steer round them slowly and I'm sure some of them must think you're not supposed to be there so they get wound up, not everyone knows the legalities of toucan crossings.

I live around the corner from Stockwell station off the SL road, so the queenstown road route would take me out of my way quite a bit. It does look like a nice route though.

homercles

Porgy wrote:

I wonder if they're Merc drivers!

I had 3 less than great overtaking manoeuvres put on me yesterday, all by Merc drivers, and it got me wondering if they were the worst drivers out there. Seems like you have similar thoughts!

Queenstown Rd - Chelsea Bridge = very nice, but definitely adds some palava to my route unless I happen to be coming back through that corner of central London.

star_rover

I don't think Vauxhall roundabout is as bad as Hyde Park corner, maybe cos there's fewer black cabs . . .
The route Jacomus suggested is OK, but there are many more cyclists going that way (heading for the city?) and it can turn into a bit of a racetrack, too many eejits jockeying for position as if it's a sprint finish at Oval.

TN, I'd be happy to accompany you round the roundabout one morning if you wanted. I usually pass through there at about 8am.

Jacomus-rides-Gen

Thats a very nice offer star_rover.

I suggested that route actually because so many cyclists use it, I tend to think that drivers are just more resigned to there being zillions of cycles all over the show.

Commuting is allways full of cyclists jockying for position, most of it can be avoided by good road positioning and putting the power through the pedals. Admittedly TN can't do that until she gets her new bike so maybe my plan isn't so good after all.

Totalnewbie

I've just come home (got off early due to Bank hol, thank you employer), Lambeth bridge was very quiet and I had no trouble going round Vauxhall from Albert embankment but that may well be because I escaped rush hour for once. Can't imagine it is always so quiet!

Now you mention it, I think the bf goes part of that way (Oval) on his way to Tower Hill, and I remember him saying that it was like a massive race 'with loads of idiots'. He's now hankering after a road bike so it's obviously got to him though...! Mind you there is plenty of that on my commute already, I tend not to get involved. It's still worth a try once.

That's a very kind offer star_rover, you may rethink if you saw my bike, I'm sure to slow you down! It used to be in my signature but has mysteriously disappeared, this forum does odd things. Suffice to say, it is not built for speed. I'm tempted though.

star_rover

I sometimes take the Clapham Road route for a change - depends on how many starters there are lined up outside Stockwell tube station. It might be worth a go totalnewbie, depends on what time you normally travel. I seem to be there the same time as psychos in full face helmets.
Right enough, vauxhall gyratory can be pretty fast and I do try and take it at speed, but I think it's doable at any speed if you take the correct position on the road, through the best route. It does look like 4 lanes of mayhem to the untrained eye!
TN: The offer is always there, whether it's fast bike or slow!
Actually I think the reverse route is worse. I'm always surrounded by motorbikes and there's huge pothole just as you're accelerating under the bridge which you have to swerve round, to the chagrin of the driver behind you.

Jacomus-rides-Gen

star_rover
psychos in full face helmets.

Hey! 8)

I wear a full face lid and am no psycho. Though it's not a full-on full face its one of these Met Parachute's

I think it strikes a nice balance for road riding, and if you are careful you can still swig from a waterbottle with it on. I wear it in the city for commuting, but generally not on club rides or when I'm going out casually riding. I tend to put it on for club rides in the wet, but in the dry I wear my Spesh Decibel. It is heavier than normal, and hotter than the Decibel - I wouldn't like to spend much more than 2hrs in it in one go, especially if it is hot.

It was crash-tested by the son of a family friend who bought one for XC, he recommended it to me. His bike slipped from underneath him in a corner, on road. He went down and struck the chinbar about halfway up it, and the temple on the same side. The chinbar cracked but didn't break, and it bruised his cheek, but stopped his face touching down.

I also like the way that it is open round the ears, meaning that it doesn't affect hearing like the Spech Deviant I was wearing for a short time after my accident. The chinbar is removeable, turning the helmet into a normal open-face, but I've never used that option because I have the Decibel for that.

star_rover

Sorry! Didn't mean to generalise.
They're a bit pricey those helmets. I can barely be persuaded to wear a regular lid.
Can I ask, why do feel the need to wear a helmet like that? Do you think a regular helmet doesn't provide enough protection (in the city anyway)?

Totalnewbie

I'm normally there around 8.30ish but I could get up earlier. Ah yes I know the pothole you speak of, damn thing. Thanks for the offer, I will see how courageous I'm feeling when I get back!

Jacomus-rides-Gen

No problemo, 'twas a very mild generalization

I like to wear it in the city especially, mostly because I think that any accident that occurs is more likely to involve a bash to my head, and I like that little bit of extra protection around my jaw. Its also why I tend to put it on for wet club runs, as I feel its most likely that if an accident happens, it will be a lowside, which are notorious for bringing ones face into contact with the road (in motorbiking at least).

Also I spend a lot of time in a motorbike helmet, on road and on track, and I've seen a few nasty head impacts there. I know the forces are so much greater in a motorbike fall, that coupled with the heavier helmet basically guarentees a head strike, but I can't shake the imagry.

I also wear a Dainese spine protector under my jersey, it makes my dodgy spine look much more pronounced, but I escaped paralysis once whilst wearing one, and have done ever since.

I used to wear a full body-armour jacket for a while, but that was only after my crash when I was feeling very vulnerable indeed.

Its probably over-caution on my behalf, but it relaxes me and stops nasty images playing through my mind, which gives me more focus for the road.

So to sum up, I bet all that is needed is one word...

Paranoia 8)


EDIT: Sorting out the link

star_rover

Jeezo, that spine protector is some bit of kit. Just as well you wear it under your jersey, or folk might think you were one of the x-men!
If it makes you more relaxed and comfortable on the bike, then fair play to you. We all tend forget how fragile we really are.

RossC

I assume you're q member of http://www.lambethcyclists.org.uk/ where you can discuss the problems with your route and how you'd like to see it improved

generally, membership of http://www.lcc.org.uk/ is good for you too

Totalnewbie

Yes I'm a member of LCC and hence also Lambeth Cyclists; we had a bit of a moan about how awful Vauxhall bridge southbound is on one of their rides recently; I might get myself along to one of their meetings at some point to discuss it properly.

Totalnewbie

I gave star_rover's way a try this morning (first morning back after extended bank holiday). Not sure what got into me, I just thought 'sod it' and went for it.

It would doubtless have been easier on a speedier bike but I was surrounded by other cyclists with the same idea so it was not too bad, except when a car suddenly realised he was in the wrong lane (he wanted Vauxhall bridge) and tried to cut across me like I wasn't there...

star_rover

Bravo, (s)he who dares wins, eh?
Will you be doing it again?

Totalnewbie

Thanks! I think so, it beats tangling with the peds on two different toucans. It would have been trouble free if that twit in the car hadn't been in the wrong lane, but I'm always half expecting someone to do that anyway.

It'll be better once I can keep up with the traffic a bit more - I noticed the bloke on the bike in front of me avoided all the 'what lane am I in?!' madness from the cars.