Shouted at today...ooops

DavidTQ

Ok going through one of least favourite stretches of road this evening (actually thinking about it maybe I should change my route..) Anyway its a stretch of road I dont like theres 3 narrow lanes 1 in my direction two in the opposite direction, no cycle lane, and solide doublewhite lines between the directions. As I understand the LAW states that cars are not allowed to straddle the or cross teh solid white lines to overtake me unless Im doing under 10 mph, well this is a 20-30 stretch for me.

I ride in primary because I KNOW that 99% of motorists are going to overtake me illegally, its a fact its going to happen and they are going to cross into the paths of oncoming vehicles and then swing in right in front of me braking the laws ont he solid white line and the speed limit...

So today I was travelling down there in primary as normal when a ancient yellow plumbers van performed the same manouvre ive seen so many times every day except this one has a guy in the passenger seat with his window down who yells out the window at me. You know the type late 20's early 30's no top on deep tan sjkin head hook nose and shades. I didnt quite catch what he had to say but I got the gist it was some sort of personal attack now he had overtaken me just before the road in our direction splits into two lanes and surprise surprise the lane hes going in (and most vehicles on this road) is blocked with solid traffic this is 20' from where he over took me.

I slowed down at the same pace as he did and what I meant to do was enquire at a loud enough volume for him to hear what his problem was. As I was ready to give a lecture on exactly what I am doing as a cyclist. This all happened quite quickly as you could imagine in 20'.

What actually came out sounded to my own ears hugelly aggressive bordering on phsychotic "What did you say?" (Ive got a very deep booming type voice) to which I got a somewhat sheepish "I didnt say anything". As I passed again (all this happened in motion) I was just thinking about what did he say exactly, its quite possible that what he said was "How much room do you want to take up". I was about 30' down the road before I heard another shout from the van but this time far too distant to make out any of it, probably just as well Im not the type to back down or shy away from threats, I absolutely would have told them exactly what I was doing and why I was right and they were being pillocks there were police just down the road...

The oops bit though is because I genuinely did not mean to come across aggressive at all, I was preparing for a debate on road manners and the law... Looking back it would have been wasted on that type anyway...

fossyant

To be honest, I only take the primary position when overtaking parked cars or approaching lights etc - it's up to the idiots if they overtake, and like you I'm usually belting along at some pace.

By the sounds of it you were getting close to the traffic anyway.

Wouldn't get too worried about the idiots - had a car of chavs put the nose of their fiesta out from a side street on me tonight and caused me to swerve - they thought it was funny.... but not really going to argue with 5 of them.

DavidTQ

The problem on this particular road is that if I dont take primary they try to squeeze down without crossing the solid white lines, and there just isnt room to do that and leave an inch or two betwwn their wing mirror and my handlebars at leat inprimary they have to cross the white lines anyway and so I get given more space. Not riding in primary down that stretch is a really scary experience. Might try to see if I can cut it out of the route now. Just been using it out of habit but I picked my route originally to avoid hills as much as possible and now im not so worried about hills.

Jacomus-rides-Gen

David - Definitely think about changing your route! That road sounds horrible, there is one like this near me that I avoid at all costs.

You are definitely coping with it correctly, strong use of primary to protect yourself.

I know what you mean about bellowing aggressively by accident. I have on occasion done the same thing - I think it must be to do with the amount of physical effort you are putting in, much larger volume of air is being sucked into your lungs, then you go to shout at what would be a normal volume and suddenly this massive noise come out of your mouth that you werent prepared for! :shock:

BentMikey

Good topic! I love how the guy was too chicken to say anything back to you.

Paulie W

Recently, I was quite badly squeezed by a BMW at a pinch point. I gestured - very non threateningly I thought - but the driver stopped about 50m down the road. OK, I thought, I'll have a word if that's what he wants. As he wound down the window, I suggested that he was a bit close. He told me that I was cycling too far out into the road - I clearly wasnt - and that if I was hit it was my own fault. I completely lost it - it was a real zero to 60 moment - and told him what I thought of him in a very agressive manner. Let's put it this way: he drove off pretty quickly. Later that day I had a meeting with the principal accountant at the place where I work. He walks into my office and although we've never met there was instant recognition - it was BMW driver. Obviously there was no acknowledgment of the incident and we cheerily went through with the meeting. There's probably a lesson there...

BentMikey

Wow Paulie!! I'd have cheekily bought him a copy of cyclecraft, and suggested he read it twice.

homercles

BentMikey wrote:

I'd have cheekily bought him a copy of cyclecraft...

Arf

Paulie W

He's an accountant - he cant read!

Jacomus-rides-Gen

I attempted to have a word with a cabbie last night, he squeezed past me on my left, going underneath my strong position that I hold along this wide section, as I need to be in the middle lane at the junction at the end. A feat that is near impossible if I cycle on the left along this short 200m max stretch of road. Oh, and it slopes gently downhill and I ride it at between 28-34mph (30mph limit)

In last nights high winds I was wobbling a bit due to the nasty combination of lightweight road bike and wheels with bladed spokes. At the traffic lights, which he reached only about 0.5 of a second before me, aaaand he wasn't even going in the same direction as me!

His window was down, and the following conversation occurred:

Jacomus: That was far too close to pass me back there.
Cabbie: Far too close? What are you talking about?
Jacomus: It is very windy, and that makes it much more likely I'll swerve against my will.
Cabbie: What?
Jacomus: I'm saying that you overtook me illigally on my left hand side, and endangered my life by giving me no room. And to make things worse, the conditions mean that I have less control over my road positioning than normal.
Cabbie: Well get off the f**king road then.
Jacomus: Delightful talking with you. Expect to hear from the PCO, I'm sure they can help you understand the rules of the road.

With that (whilst wishing I had said any other phrase than "rules of the road") I took a pic of his licence with my phone, and merrily waited for the lights to change. He stayed silent, eyes fixed straight ahead.

When I got on the train, I looked at my phone, and I had a video of me waggling it around, bit of road, more waggling then blackness inside my saddlebag for 3mins until the memory ran out. D'oh!

Clever Pun

sorry guys, slightly stupid question

The primary position... where is it exactly? I've seen the term bandied about on here

I'm assuming it's the left side of the middle of the road, so a bit more than the 'recommended' metre from the curb?

David you were right to stand up to him... essentially showing him up for a coward, it's also likely he was mocking cycle gear, that seems to be a fun pastime for that type of cretin.

BentMikey

Primary is roughly the middle of the flow of traffic in your lane, since lanes and traffic flow don't always correspond well.

Clever Pun

gotcha cheers

yeah I can understand why motorist would get narked at you having the gaul to take up space on their road

DavidTQ

That BMW driver would have got an earfull from me on the road, the second meeting well I would have been civil and pleasant but braced and ready to respond if anything was said. Fortunately I work for a small company theres only two people above me and I KNOW that if Im angry even shouting at the MD will not lose me my job or make a long term problem. Only dont it twice since I started here in 96 hate doing it, but theres been a couple of times Ive been angry enough to.

Primary position causes no more hassle for a car driver than riding in the gutter IF the car driver follows the highway code which says :-

Give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would a car when overtaking.

In the centre of the lane Im still not taking up as much space as a car would so if they are following the highway code it makes no odds to them, of course, most drivers dont follow the highway code but DO go wider round if you are taking primary than if you are up against the curb. They try to squeeze through if you are up against the curb being in primary makes them make a deliberate overtaking manouvre and so they take a wider route. It also takes up seconds at the most of their time.

On good roads where drivers are more likely to give you a decent amount of room anyway I have no issues whatsoever taking secondary, and letting the traffic flow freely without having to go round me, but if I feel its safer Im out in primary and I will make no apologies for it, the majority of the time despite being "in the way" im not actually adding so much as a second to their journey time.

Many roads down here in devon 1m out is roughly primary

Will think about changeing my route though, its not actually the most direct route and thinking about it theres probably better routes to take now im not scared of big hills.

IF the majority of car drivers did leave cyclists a safe amount of room then there would be far less need for us to take up cycling, those most put out by us taking primary are likely the biggest reason its necesary at times!

Bob the dog

I tend to bellow at any muppets on the road in the vain hope that they might learn something. Trouble is I tend also to be listening to Rammstein or something on me i-pod whenever this happens, so I get quite loud :twisted:

ddraver

Oh i think primary is in the centre of the lane precisely so that cars cannot pass on the outside, thus forcing them to wait behind untill we re through the juction or what have you

secondary being 1m from the curb so cars can easily get round you but they DO have to move around you slightly, thus noticing you re there but not being held up

BigLee1

Cycling home tonight & had the pissed lads shout at me while passing me at 60 mph. Spotted the car dropping one of them off & thought I`d leave it then after quite a long hill with a petrol station at the top lo & behold the car was in the petrol station just about to pull out! So stopped & "had a word" with the driver who was quite shocked at being caught by the bloke on the bike he passed 4 miles ago & was most apolegetic about it especially when i told him i saw where he dropped his mate off

Cunobelin

BentMikey wrote:

Wow Paulie!! I'd have cheekily bought him a copy of cyclecraft, and suggested he read it twice.

There are often free leaflets from the local Council on cycling which cover these aspects.If you have details of the company - send them one!

Flycatcher

I was in primary approaching a mini roundabout to turn right at the top of my road last week when I noticed a BMW about to pull out from a side street into my road. As I approached the roundabout it pulled out to overtake me just forcing itself in before the traffic island to my right and forcing me to back off and swerve left.

100 meters up the road he pulls into the pub car park. I was just behind him all the way and pulled in beside him.

When he got out I asked what that was about and could he not have waited 5 seconds for me to navigate the roundabout. His reply was "you were in the middle of the road".

I replied that I was turning right and had I not been aware of him and moved I would have been hit. He apologised most insincerely.

I drove round to the road he turned out of later that night and sure enough the lazy sod's car was parked in a driveway, about 300 yards from the pub.

I'm really tempted to damage his car but it's not really me (even though I keep thinking of doing) but I know the police would not take action if I reported him. Even from last week this still winds me up now which is why I still feel like chucking brake fluid on his shiny tourer but know that I'll not do. He does need teaching a lesson though.