Cycle lanes with dotted lines

redddraggon

What is the point of these? If cars can go in these it makes them pointless.

I nearly had a serious accident involving one of them today. I was going down the cycle lane at a measly 17mph. The traffic was piling up but I go down the cycle lane slowing a bit as the cars get a bit closer to the cycle lane. Suddenly (at a low speed) a car pulls into the cycle lane just in front quickly, leaving me rapidly with no space between the high curb and the car to unclip and put my feet down. After swearing very loudly in fear, and banging on the window, and then getting my arm caught on the wing mirror and nearly ripping it off, he realised I was there and pulled away from the curb.

No it wouldn't have been a fatal accident, but it could have easily left me with broken limbs and a broken bike.

Can anyone tell me what the point of the cycle lanes that cars can go in is?

ddraver

well its no comfort to you...but he shouldnt...

BentMikey

There's no point to most cycle lanes.

Mikey Mouse

Said the lord himself.

Jeremy Parker

redddraggon wrote:

What is the point of these? If cars can go in these it makes them pointless.

[snip]

The point is probably to encourage motorists to overtake cyclists without deviating from their path. After all, without a lane not only might motorists deviate from their path when overtaking, they might decide not to overtake at all, which would never do.

The point might be to encourage cars to move more quickly, by removing the pcychological "friction effect" that occurs when cars drive next to a kerb.

If the lane is advisory, that shows that the traffic engineers know that it essentially impossible for cars to stay out of the bike lane. That could be useful information for cyclists.

Jeremy Parker

Stig-OT-Dump

The point is that councils have targets for introducing cycle lanes and miles of cycle lane provision are a measurable statistic.

Most roads were designed without cycle lanes in mind, and at a time when car use was less.

To implement proper cycle lanes would require road (motorised traffic) restriction or extra land-take. Neither is generally practical or politically desirable.

Non-compulsory dotted cycle lanes allows local authorities to fulfill their remit using paint and not costly engineering solutions. It really doesn't involve cyclists and safe routes. Many don't meet design codes and actually make cycling more hazardous.

BentMikey

I think that even properly built and designed cycle lanes will still lead to an increase in danger for cyclists. That's because creating cycle lanes comes down to increasing junction complexity by a large amount. Junctions are where most accidents happen, whilst only something like 5% of accidents are cyclists being hit from behind.

BentMikey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cycl ... _risks.jpg

Mikey Mouse

That image looks like it's on the pavement.

JustRidecp

Totally Mikey.

I have to say, I dont see many of these types of cycle paths in Scotland. I live in the city though so they may be more common in suburbia. I did notice them quite a bit more down south. Perhaps they're more common with newer roads. I remember first time seeing them and thinking that they're a waste of space and are sure to lead to accidents where they cross junctions.

Safer to stick to the road.

Keithp88

There have been some new cycle lanes put in round here recently. But only where the road is really wide and there wasn't a need for them.... The one they put in at the roundabout :shock: was simply designed to reduce the number of cyclists on the road, its proper lethal.

dondare

redddraggon wrote:

What is the point of these? If cars can go in these it makes them pointless.

I nearly had a serious accident involving one of them today. I was going down the cycle lane at a measly 17mph. The traffic was piling up but I go down the cycle lane slowing a bit as the cars get a bit closer to the cycle lane. Suddenly (at a low speed) a car pulls into the cycle lane just in front quickly, leaving me rapidly with no space between the high curb and the car to unclip and put my feet down. After swearing very loudly in fear, and banging on the window, and then getting my arm caught on the wing mirror and nearly ripping it off, he realised I was there and pulled away from the curb.

No it wouldn't have been a fatal accident, but it could have easily left me with broken limbs and a broken bike.

Can anyone tell me what the point of the cycle lanes that cars can go in is?

A cycle lane with a dotted line might as well not be there. When using these lanes you have to expect deviating drivers, passengers opening doors, wandering pedestrians and even other cyclists doing strange things and 17 mph is too fast.
Ditto for any other type of cycle lane.

HJ1976

Am I right in thinking that the councils were also 'bridbed' into putting cycle lanes in and so just put them anywhere they could squeeze them in rather than where they would be of use?

dondare

Mikey Mouse wrote:

That image looks like it's on the pavement.

Read the entire article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segregated ... facilities

dondare

HJ1976 wrote:

Am I right in thinking that the councils were also 'bridbed' into putting cycle lanes in and so just put them anywhere they could squeeze them in rather than where they would be of use?

Councils are given a target and if they do not meet it their transport budget is cut. This results in a lot of useless facilities.

DavidTQ

HJ1976 wrote:

Am I right in thinking that the councils were also 'bridbed' into putting cycle lanes in and so just put them anywhere they could squeeze them in rather than where they would be of use?

I seem to remember something like that, theres a cycle lane around here I think it was the first in the area, thats 50cm wide - not as wide as the handlebars! what use is that to anyone?

dondare

Here's another good site:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/w ... -lanes.pdf

JustRidecp

dondare wrote:

Councils are given a target and if they do not meet it their transport budget is cut. This results in a lot of useless facilities.

Like silly road humps or chicanes that pop up just before the end of the tax year and are torn down a couple of years later because of shoddy planning and the general fact that they're useless..

mikeitup

I tend not to use most of the cycle lanes where I live (walsall) as they are badly designed and placed. Most you cannot use because cars are parked in them. and the rest are about 10 yards long. I found a good 200 yard stretch today. very rare round here.
maybe they should get someone who actually cycles to assist in planning?

redddraggon

dondare wrote:

Here's another good site:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/w ... -lanes.pdf

Very interesting. It's further convinced me to the pointlessness of the cycle lanes in Warrington at least.

2wheelzgood

Hmm I'd like to see some stats for that Warrington study. Vehicles' position on the road depends on some many things ,it's hard to say it's just the cycle lane.
Eg the last image of the blue truck being quite close to the cyclist in the lane. He wouldn't have moved over as there was an oncoming car. Whereas the pic above it, the truck was able to move out. Also trucks are less liley to want to slow down as they liek to keep their momentum going so this affects their speed and position too.

BTW she's not wearing any PPE!

I use cycle lanes in Leeds. they seem to be useful.
But I can see cycle paths being more risky esp at junctions like that image. Think Hull has a fair few paths that are like that.
Cycle lanes on the road are way better IMHO

BentMikey

I would have said that cycle lanes on the road are the least useful of all. They have so many negative points - usually too narrow, they encourage too-close overtaking by cars, they don't get swept free of puncture-causing debris by car tyres, they make it much harder to overtake other cyclists, and they do nothing to avoid the problem of junction complexity as described earlier in this topic. They also tend to stop and start at random, and leave the cyclist stuffed when it comes to going through a pinch point like a pedestrian refuge.

dondare

2wheelzgood wrote:

Hmm I'd like to see some stats for that Warrington study. Vehicles' position on the road depends on some many things ,it's hard to say it's just the cycle lane.
Eg the last image of the blue truck being quite close to the cyclist in the lane. He wouldn't have moved over as there was an oncoming car. Whereas the pic above it, the truck was able to move out. Also trucks are less liley to want to slow down as they liek to keep their momentum going so this affects their speed and position too.

BTW she's not wearing any PPE!

I use cycle lanes in Leeds. they seem to be useful.
But I can see cycle paths being more risky esp at junctions like that image. Think Hull has a fair few paths that are like that.
Cycle lanes on the road are way better IMHO

Without producing figures I can say that it is exactly my experience that cycle lanes marked on roads have the effect of reducing the margins of safety offered by overtaking vehicals; they pass closer and faster when there is a white line than when there isn't..