How much faster is a good bike?

aberfeldyweather

Given 2 identical riders with identical fitness and distance of say 30 miles: how much faster would cyclist A go over B if A was on a £2000 bike and B was on a £400 bike.

Its not scientific but do you think that there would be a big diff?

daniel_b

Good question!

Would to get this tested, only realistic way would be to own one or the other, and find someone who is willing to lend you their steed, dimensions would need to be similar as well.

To make it a balanced test, you would both need to ride the other ones bikes, but not together, and you would need to complete the route the following week, for example, on the other bike.

Hills would also make a big difference, in temrs of how much quicker the 2K bike would be - I assume full carbon/dura ace etc, so weight down to around 7KG, where as your £400 one will be around 10KG.

Dan

mossycp

I'm sure there's a scientific way of measuring this, some maths genius will come along in a minute and work it out.

Suffice to say that in the real world the difference would be pretty small. You're probably talking about a weight difference of 2 maybe 3 kilos ,i.e. the equivalent of 2 or 3 bottles of water. If the route was very hilly then the weight difference would have an effect but anything flat could even favour the heavier bike. More important would be position on the bike as aerodynamics would have more effect.

Any good LBS will tell you that the £2000 bike will be significantly faster

Smeggers

You'd also have to remove the psychological element.

i.e. de-badge both bikes, so there was no perceived difference in value between them.

Some skinny Texan once said, "its not about the bike".

RufusA

From what I've read the differences in weight / aerodynamics of a £400 vs a £2000 bike may result in about 0.5 mph speed advantage on average, assuming a 25mph average speed.

So over 30 miles - the better bike will finish appox 1 minutes quicker - all factors being equal. This assumes an even mixture of uppy bits and downy bits. Racing an indoor circuit on the level the differences will be less!

However in reality if competing with others, you tend to expend more effort to keep up with the pack, and some of the aerodynamic advantages of a better bike are diminished by slipstreaming.

Personally apart from the pure joy of having a carbon frame, or a silly shaped spokes, or responsiveness, I imagine it will make little difference. Particularly when you factor in other random stuff like hydration packs, toolkits, rolling resistance etc.

HTH - Rufus.

PhilofCas

i'm puzzled by this, if there's negligible speed advantage then why do lots of people hanker after more expensive bikes ?, aside from a weight difference, what about stiffness of the bottom bracket and wheelset, tyre RR, aerodynamics etc ?.

It's been a long time query of mine, i have what is probably considered a 'starter' bike, at some point in the future i want to upgrade, i'm adamant that i won't do this unless there is a tangible difference in speed, i think i will be able to tell a noticable difference, but from the initial few replies above i'm beginning to wonder whether i will !!.

Hope someone (based on personal experience) can answer this in full.

bigjim

For the samr reason that people want a more expensive car. They will still have to sit in traffic behind the 20 year old escort. Part of it I am sure is look at me. See what I can afford. Saying that it is a good thing that they continue to spend money. keeps the economy rolling and peple in jobs.

Jim

spasypaddy

its a brain thing, people want to spend loads of a new car for the name/badge/look its the same with a bike. I want a bianchi so that other cyclists notice straight away that im riding a nice bike! That is why my bianchi is going to be in celeste!

joew4ll

I recently borrowed my brother in laws carbon focus for a few weeks and my average commute time dropped by a couple of minutes from 45 to 43 minutes for 16 miles. It was much faster than my normal bike especially uphill - all 7 consecutive miles of it. The other joy was the smoothness of gear changes and responsiveness when picking up the pace.

When I can afford it I'll be getting something much better (assuming I can convince the wife it's a good idea )

mekonta

Once you're up to speed and on the flat, the more expensive bike won't be much/any quicker. But riding includes lots of little accelerations, sprints up climbs and sharp cornering. The more expensive bike will accelerate better, due to lighter weight and better power distribution. And when you go into a corner too fast and need to haul on the breaks late, it should have better handling and get you round safely. It should also hold the road better anyway, so you feel safer taking that fast corner even faster. Plus...the components on your expensive bike will still be performing flawlessly long after they've started to skip, rattle and clunk on the cheaper bike.

There's a point where you definitely get diminishing returns and a 6k bike is excessive for most of us, but to my mind 2-3k is not necessarily just an extravagance.

Dorian Gray

I would say that around £400 gets you a "proper" road bike. Below this there are serious compromises. Above this you are into diminishing returns territory. Of course those small returns might be worth it in many cases.

But for £400 you get a bike that isn't ridiculously heavy, doesn't flex too much, has geometry designed by someone who knows what they're doing, has brakes that stop you (if properly set up) and gears that shift quickly and smoothly and reliably (again, only if they're set up properly), etc.

Therefore the only big differences between a £400 bike and a £2000 bike are weight and aerodynamics. The expensive bike may be about 3 kg lighter. This is insignificant on a flat road but will make a noticeable difference uphill. From personal experience I would say that 3 kg off the bike does seem to make more difference than 3 kg off your body, although the difference isn't vast. I'm not sure why that is.

In terms of aerodynamics, the big difference will be the wheels. Wheel drag makes up about 10% of your total power expenditure at speed. Being very optimistic, the expensive wheels might halve that drag, which would improve your speed on the flat by around 2%.

So an expensive bike could easily mean the difference between winning and coming second in a race. Which is why the racers want them. The rest of us want them because they're nice to ride, nice to talk about, and dead sexy to look at.

magnetdoggs

on the other hand no 2 people are a-like, therefore this is only theoretic.

meaning the bike can make a good cyclist better and an great cyclist a winner?

bigjim

"they're nice to ride, nice to talk about, and dead sexy to look at."

Or not!

Jim

richa

Dorian Gray wrote:

From personal experience I would say that 3kg off the bike does seem to make more difference than 3 kg off your body, although the difference isn't vast. I'm not sure why that is.

Probably because you can swap bikes and test the 3kg lighter bike in an instance. Where as it'll take acouple of weeks to lose the 3kg bodyweight and by then you won't fully remember how it felt when you were 3kg heavier.

Chris5150

Have a nice bike becuase you can afford too, its that simple, youve got to spend your money on something, and if your interested in something then spending money on top of the range stuff is great!.
It really irks me that there is always 'knockers ' in everything that one is interested in, that clearly have not achieved a lot in their lives so they take the 'Uh must be daft spending £xxxx pounds on that, my £100 jobby is just as good'. Well mate no its not and dont tell me how to spend my money and I wont tell you!.
I play guitar and you have the same questions there 'Get a £300 strat, no point in spending anymore on a guitar, think it makes you play better?'..well no it wont, Im crap at guitar, doesnt stop me buying expensive Les Pauls though. Yes a £2k car will get me around, but I will stick with my Porsche thanks. I love my Scott spark LTd & Ransom Ltd Carbon mountain bikes, I love the technology and the fact they are top of the line. I may well be buying a new trek madone soon and keeping my current bike as a winter bike..again I am not a great cyclist and am under no illusions that spending money will make me any better.
So in a nutshell I have worked & studied hard to earn a good income and I enjoy spending it on whatever Im interested in, I make no apologies for it at all.

My point being if you have the cash and you have a hobby/interest then buy the best you can afford and dont listen to the old man moaners.Just have fun that is what life is all about, we are all a long time dead.

xio

Feel good factor mainly. I'm absolutely sure I'm loads faster on my new 3k bike than my old 600 quid one . Stopwatch might not agree with me, but I know which one's going to make me want to get up and go for a long ride.

Speaking of which, a more expensive bike will likely be more confortable/give less fatigue etc. All of which means you'll go faster in the (literally) longer run.

robbie the roadie

Can you tell the difference? Absolutely. More in terms of just how quick off the mark and responsive they are then in terms of top speed. I think really a lot of it all comes down to it's your hobby so it's nice to ride the best bike you can afford 8)

bigjim

"also it's nice to ride the best bike you can afford "
Of course it is. So long as you are not missing out on other things, for example, cycling holidays etc that can provide you with longer more enjoyable experiences and memories. especially if you can share them with somebody else. Everbody to their own as they say. However there is the school of thought that we have to have the big and better because of our own insecurity and lack of self esteem. Hmm....

Jim

Chris5150

Quote..
However there is the school of thought that we have to have the big and better because of our own insecurity and lack of self esteem. Hmm....

Rubbish..I like spending money on thngs I like. I do not do it to impress other people, couldnt give a toss. If you put me on a dserted island for the next 5 years, just me, I would still want to pedal a top line bike and drive an expensive car and play an expensive guitar...It always seems to me its always the miserable depressed types that whine about what a waste of moeny things are...the happier and more resolved individuals havent got a problem

giant_man

Chris5150 wrote:

Have a nice bike becuase you can afford too, its that simple, youve got to spend your money on something, and if your interested in something then spending money on top of the range stuff is great!.
It really irks me that there is always 'knockers ' in everything that one is interested in, that clearly have not achieved a lot in their lives so they take the 'Uh must be daft spending £xxxx pounds on that, my £100 jobby is just as good'. Well mate no its not and dont tell me how to spend my money and I wont tell you!.
I play guitar and you have the same questions there 'Get a £300 strat, no point in spending anymore on a guitar, think it makes you play better?'..well no it wont, Im crap at guitar, doesnt stop me buying expensive Les Pauls though. Yes a £2k car will get me around, but I will stick with my Porsche thanks. I love my Scott spark LTd & Ransom Ltd Carbon mountain bikes, I love the technology and the fact they are top of the line. I may well be buying a new trek madone soon and keeping my current bike as a winter bike..again I am not a great cyclist and am under no illusions that spending money will make me any better.
So in a nutshell I have worked & studied hard to earn a good income and I enjoy spending it on whatever Im interested in, I make no apologies for it at all.

My point being if you have the cash and you have a hobby/interest then buy the best you can afford and dont listen to the old man moaners.Just have fun that is what life is all about, we are all a long time dead.

You were doing well until the words Trek and Madone came up. You can do better than a Trek surely Chris?

Chris5150

Ok then Giant mancp....lets have it, what is the ultimate road gong machine?...i did have a look at a scott addict ltd at £7k, but resisted...I do like the look of the 08 6.9 madone, quite like the white rather than all the carbon fibre floating around

Smeggers

Chris5150 wrote:

Have a nice bike becuase you can afford too, its that simple, youve got to spend your money on something, and if your interested in something then spending money on top of the range stuff is great!.
It really irks me that there is always 'knockers ' in everything that one is interested in, that clearly have not achieved a lot in their lives so they take the 'Uh must be daft spending £xxxx pounds on that, my £100 jobby is just as good'. Well mate no its not and dont tell me how to spend my money and I wont tell you!.
I play guitar and you have the same questions there 'Get a £300 strat, no point in spending anymore on a guitar, think it makes you play better?'..well no it wont, Im crap at guitar, doesnt stop me buying expensive Les Pauls though. Yes a £2k car will get me around, but I will stick with my Porsche thanks. I love my Scott spark LTd & Ransom Ltd Carbon mountain bikes, I love the technology and the fact they are top of the line. I may well be buying a new trek madone soon and keeping my current bike as a winter bike..again I am not a great cyclist and am under no illusions that spending money will make me any better.
So in a nutshell I have worked & studied hard to earn a good income and I enjoy spending it on whatever Im interested in, I make no apologies for it at all.

My point being if you have the cash and you have a hobby/interest then buy the best you can afford and dont listen to the old man moaners.Just have fun that is what life is all about, we are all a long time dead.

Stratocaster
Les Pauls
Porsche
Scott Spark Ltd
Ransom Ltd

Your paying for name-dropping priviliges methinks.

Yours,

A ne'er do-well 'knocker'
(who is probably considerably richer than thow - buit choses not to flaunt it) :twisted:

bigjim

Quote "Rubbish..I like spending money on thngs I like. I do not do it to impress other people, couldnt give a toss. If you put me on a dserted island for the next 5 years, just me, I would still want to pedal a top line bike and drive an ..........."

I do apologise for hitting a nerve.

Jim

Sub3_99

Getting back to the subject, a more expensive bike will have better bearings & wheels tha an entry level one. Result - less energy expended in accelerating, climbing, and maintaining speed. Even on the flat a good bike will be faster than an entry level given the same rider & riding conditions.

sonicred007

Chris5150 wrote:

Ok then Giant mancp....lets have it, what is the ultimate road gong machine?...i did have a look at a scott addict ltd at £7k, but resisted...I do like the look of the 08 6.9 madone, quite like the white rather than all the carbon fibre floating around

you're marketing mans wet dream

... only wish I had your disposal income - although £7k on a bike wouldn't be my first consideration based on this thread so far. Best is not equal to expensive. Expensive it seems is just expensive beyond £2k

PhilofCas

Chris5150 wrote:

Have a nice bike becuase you can afford too, its that simple, youve got to spend your money on something, and if your interested in something then spending money on top of the range stuff is great!.
It really irks me that there is always 'knockers ' in everything that one is interested in, that clearly have not achieved a lot in their lives so they take the 'Uh must be daft spending £xxxx pounds on that, my £100 jobby is just as good'. Well mate no its not and dont tell me how to spend my money and I wont tell you!.
I play guitar and you have the same questions there 'Get a £300 strat, no point in spending anymore on a guitar, think it makes you play better?'..well no it wont, Im crap at guitar, doesnt stop me buying expensive Les Pauls though. Yes a £2k car will get me around, but I will stick with my Porsche thanks. I love my Scott spark LTd & Ransom Ltd Carbon mountain bikes, I love the technology and the fact they are top of the line. I may well be buying a new trek madone soon and keeping my current bike as a winter bike..again I am not a great cyclist and am under no illusions that spending money will make me any better.
So in a nutshell I have worked & studied hard to earn a good income and I enjoy spending it on whatever Im interested in, I make no apologies for it at all.

My point being if you have the cash and you have a hobby/interest then buy the best you can afford and dont listen to the old man moaners.Just have fun that is what life is all about, we are all a long time dead.

So is it faster or not ??

Chris5150

I am sure you are wealthier than me smeggers, couldnt care less mate,your missing the point of what im saying. I do not buy anything to impress anybody, far from it,it is actually more embarrasing to be out mountain biking with people who have 10 times my ablity when you have a state of the art machine. Same with the car when I do a track day in the GT3 and people in alot cheaper and less cpable stuff fly by.Same with playing guitar, like i said Im pretty crap at it.But my point being i enjoy owning such things so why the hell should I bother about all those knockers that think whatever I own I shouldnt have becuase I cannot do them justice. I dare say if I took up fishing Id buy a carbon fibre fishin rod too!. I do not name drop, I only mention such things in the context of this post, I dont know anyone on here, so why bother?.
Yes I think quality gear is better, the Spark ransom at 22lbs for a full suspension bike is very light, responsive and very fast, even a guy like me that gets off to get up a kerb can appreciate how good it is, just as you dont have t be mr schumacer to appreciate a fast car...my point been buy the best you can afford, its always worked for me and yes I dare say your right I probably am a marketing mans dream, but so what Im enjoying it and thats what matters to me.

sonicred007

Chris5150 wrote:

..my point been buy the best you can afford, its always worked for me and yes I dare say your right I probably am a marketing mans dream, but so what Im enjoying it and thats what matters to me.

the cost of everything and the value of nothing springs to mind

the point of the thread made earlier is the best is not the most expensive. When Brand came into the equation supply and demand went out of the window. Now we pay what we're prepared to pay based on what we believe/perceive we're buying into - to impress ourselves, others or noone.

By all means buy what you can afford, but it's not the best you can afford.

You're enjoying yourself, great, but consider you're being conned by the marketing men who dream of you before your next purchase and it may seem so worth while

Admittedly the pics in mags and aspirational message to get me, I just don't have the income to accumulate the lifestyle

passout

Weight does matter on climbs - especially for wheels.

Gear changes and decent braking are important .

105 on a mass produced lightweight alu frame is the best value I reckon.

Big Tcp

xio wrote:

a more expensive bike will likely be more confortable/give less fatigue etc. All of which means you'll go faster in the (literally) longer run.

A more expensive bike will be stiffer and will therefore be less comfortable and give more fatigue, but it will be more efficient and faster.

When I first changed over from steel to alu, I used to get back ache as more of the road vibration was transmitted to my body.

thebikeliker

What was the question again?

Oh yeah;

Given 2 identical riders with identical fitness and distance of say 30 miles: how much faster would cyclist A go over B if A was on a £2000 bike and B was on a £400 bike.

Its not scientific but do you think that there would be a big diff?

Why not look at the weight difference of a £2000 bike and a £400 bike and add that weight to your £400 bike and see if it is any slower?

You may need to add some of the weight to the wheels as the rotating weight is more significant than weight on the frame. Some car wheel balance weights should do.

In fact, if you don't balance them this will reproduce the difference in good value wheels and bog standard ones as far as handling is concerned.

I wouldn't make it too much or you may have an accident.

If you don't see any difference then you probably wouldn't benefit from paying for an expensive bike as regards speed.

Which is what you asked.