Vino will fight doping charges

iainf72

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=re ... &type=lgns

I wonder what technique he'll use? And will he have the Kazak economy paying for it?

And where did he go in the black van before the Albi time trial? :P

andyp

What a load of tosh. How can anyone who has the support of the Kazakh regime talk about the violation of human rights? He should tour his country and meet some of the people before he comes out with stupid comments like that.

I hope we never see him riding a bike again.

JonnyCash

I would argue that €1.5m a year entitles them to visit you at 11pm at night!!!!

These guys should live in the real world.... the funny thing is they believe all this crap they come out with..... no conscience whatsoever!!! :?

skavanagh.bikeradar

This and the statement by the CPA (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id= ... /aug18news) are highly demoralising.

Mr Bumble

Obviously he has forgotten what life is like for thus who are not chums of the President:

Secret Police knocking your down in the middle of the night....

I hope he bankrupts himself with guilt :twisted:

vermooten

The CPA statement seems reasonable to me. Just because a riders has a positive test doesn't mean he loses all of his human rights. And stating that "a rider who is positive in an antidoping control deserves to be punished and excluded from a sporting event" shouldn't be demoralising.

leguape

I'm with Vermooten. It's a pretty fair statement which defends a rider's right not be forced to play a part in a ridiculous piece of political theatre with the Gendarmes (who are probably just narked they didn't get the plum TDF gig) and for innocent riders not to have their careers and livelihoods dragged into the mess of other individuals.

Kléber

leguape wrote:

ridiculous piece of political theatre with the Gendarmes

Doping is a criminal offence in France. If you commit a crime, then the police will come and collect you, whether you're a shoplifter or a murderer. They're not going to post card from the local nick saying "wishing you were here" or send an invitation for you to pop in for a chat when you're ready.

Arguably it's the involvement of the French police that has done more to clean up the sport in recent years, it was they who busted the Festina case, who cracked David Millar, who rousted Rumsas, who exposed the Cofidis case and the 'pot belge' trade. More power to them.

As for Vino, some cultural aspect of it means I can understand part of what he means, he's grown up in a Soviet state where anyone who broke the smallest of rules could easily find themselves under surveillance; their friends are interviewed by secret police, phones bugged and their movements traced. In some senses, it must feel like the bad ol' days once again. That said, there's an easy answer to it: don't break the very rules you sign up to.

moray_gub

Kléber wrote:

leguape wrote:

ridiculous piece of political theatre with the Gendarmes

Doping is a criminal offence in France. If you commit a crime, then the police will come and collect you, whether you're a shoplifter or a murderer. They're not going to post card from the local nick saying "wishing you were here" or send an invitation for you to pop in for a chat when you're ready.

.

Yes but come on was it neccasary to humiliate him in the manner that they did ? Goodness knows how many Gendarmes were in attendance all for a doping offence in a sporting contest ? Lets get a sense of perspective here its not like he was running around with a machete butchering roadside spectators. They could, have easily picked him up any time well away from the cameras but they choose to turn it into a highly publicised TV charade.

cheers
MG

Kléber

The news leaked out during the stage, during one of the most mediatised and policed events around. It's hard to do anything away from the media, if they led him away from the hotel later, it would be in front of the cameras too because the media was on the story already, his name came out halfway through the stage.

Maybe there could have been a secret arrangement to smuggle him out of the back door, put him in an unmarked car and take him to the police station for an interview, but why should the police offer him a special procedure when every other suspect gets dragged away in front of their colleagues or families?

Remember that the system works differently in France. Suspects are usually taken in by the police, you do not get a call to come and "help with inquiries" like in England. Why should the police be lenient? Do pro cyclists get special procedures when they break the law?

Francesco Moser keeps making apologies for doping, he is not the figurehead needed by pro riders today.As I say, the French police have probably done more to expose doping than the Spanish police, Italian police, the UCI, WADA, the media and Werner Franke put together. If this makes Moser uncomfortable, good. Doping is a crime in France and If riders find getting escorted by the police humiliating, they just need to stop committing crime.

moray_gub

Kléber wrote:

The news leaked out during the stage, during one of the most mediatised and policed events around. It's hard to do anything away from the media, if they led him away from the hotel later, it would be in front of the cameras too because the media was on the story already, his name came out halfway through the stage.

Maybe there could have been a secret arrangement to smuggle him out of the back door, put him in an unmarked car and take him to the police station for an interview, but why should the police offer him a special procedure when every other suspect gets dragged away in front of their colleagues or families?

First off im glad he got caught doping but a prespective is needed here .Why didnt they just dive into the race and nab him half way through the stage if he was the criminal you seem to be portraying. After all they would have just picked up anybody else whenever they could have, no they wanted maximum publicity and they did that by arranging for as many gendarmes as they could at the finish line/hotel to turn it into a big publicity circus in front of the worlds media.Also lets not forget that at that point the rider was innocent of any crime irrespective of the fact that he later admitted doping. In fact until he is tried in a french court and is found guilty that is still the case .


cheers
MG

Wittgenstein

A crowd of around 20 fans also gathered outside the airport, carrying flowers and waving banners saying 'Vino, you are the best' and 'Alexander, you are our hero'.

unbelievable.

oily sailor

has anyone seen Graham Watson's tribute to Discovery. Apparently Astanta should raid them for a host of new "wonderful heroes"

http://www.grahamwatson.com/news/grahamsnotes07.html

andyp

oily sailor wrote:

has anyone seen Graham Watson's tribute to Discovery. Apparently Astanta should raid them for a host of new "wonderful heroes"

http://www.grahamwatson.com/news/grahamsnotes07.html

Where's the vomit emoticon?

Kléber

Watson writes: "But Contador would find favour in any team that could afford his new wage-status, and most definitely Astana. It is through Tony Rominger, Contador's new agent, that most of Astana's cyclists found work in 2007. Astana is in need of a complete re-make after the drug-busts of Vinokourov and Kashechkin, and signing Contador - as well as a rider like Yaroslav Popovych - would help lift the Swiss-based team away from its present sleazy image."

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

dave_1

I hope this Alaexandre Vinokourov character is banned ffor life from anything to do with bike racing. He´s a disgrace and his defence is just unbelievable. I hope he blows all his gains on the lawyers who relieved Tyler and Floyd of their cash and gets kicked out of the sport for life

ut_och_cykla

I hate cheats and injustice. I just hope that all these 'positive' tests are really positive and not the result of hung-over lab technicians or profit driven politics. Errors can be made - miscarriages of justice are not uncommon.

andyp

ut_och_cykla wrote:

I hate cheats and injustice. I just hope that all these 'positive' tests are really positive and not the result of hung-over lab technicians or profit driven politics. Errors can be made - miscarriages of justice are not uncommon.

Funny how it's only after a rider has been found positive that he starts questioning the validity of the tests and the credibility of the labs though isn't it?

ut_och_cykla

Yes andyp - I'm not being naive - believe me! but I just have a little niggle in the back of my mind. Two major groupings in cycling are not good mates (UCI & ASO). Cycling is going through a 'change' of sponsorship focus. Certain riders have been 'targeted'.

If I was 'targeted' in my work/private life I'm sure someone could find something that appeared 'wrong'.
e.g I might 'fail' a breathaliser test - if I did and knew I was sober I would be VERY ANGRY and make a lot of fuss. (perhaps - I was once stopped for speeding here in Sweden. 64 in a 50 zone. When I admitted my speeding but stupidly quibbled about the actual figure plod said' well perhaps I read it wrong. it could have 65' - fury spread across my face - ' or 66?' 66 would have doubled the fine!)

I just think... what if ...they are clean? :?

phil s

Get real

iainf72

phil s wrote:

Get real

It has happened though.

http://www.triathletemag.com/Department ... ry60f0.htm

I believe he's filed a law suit for damages now.

In a way, the best thing that can happen to new tests is they get disputed and it goes to CAS or something.

It's also quite funny how labs are allowed to make mistakes and people will let it slide when you consider the labs are helping enforce rules and should do everything according to the letter.

andyp

iainf72 wrote:

It's also quite funny how labs are allowed to make mistakes and people will let it slide when you consider the labs are helping enforce rules and should do everything according to the letter.

I think labs have to ensure they follow the correct processes and, when mistakes are made, they are corrected as laid down by the same processes. It means they are beyond reproach should the results be contested, i.e. the (still unresolved) Landis case.

ut_och_cykla

that article sums up my feelings about thecurrent testing procedures very nicley. Even if you do succeed in proving an error in testing there's always people suggesting you 'get real - he cheated'.
My hubby had quantities of protiens in his urine at a job screening once to an extent that they thought they'd mixed the samples with a car crash victim! He'd run a half marathon the day before and retested the following week showed nothing.
As the triathlete says - check pre race! Not just afterwards.

iainf72

andyp wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

It's also quite funny how labs are allowed to make mistakes and people will let it slide when you consider the labs are helping enforce rules and should do everything according to the letter.

I think labs have to ensure they follow the correct processes and, when mistakes are made, they are corrected as laid down by the same processes. It means they are beyond reproach should the results be contested, i.e. the (still unresolved) Landis case.

Agreed.

And I feel it will take an obviously guilty person getting off for it to be taken seriously.

thebongolian

The human rights defence is b***s***

No-one has a human right to enter a bike race

If they do want to race a bike they have to live with the terms of the organisers. Or set up their own bike race.

flattythehurdler

EPO in the urine and a hct of 52. I would say that he far more likely doped than didn't. Plenty of false positives you say. I would ask how many cases get thrown out on technicalities irrespective of guilt.

flattythehurdler

ut_och_cykla wrote:

that article sums up my feelings about thecurrent testing procedures very nicley. Even if you do succeed in proving an error in testing there's always people suggesting you 'get real - he cheated'.
My hubby had quantities of protiens in his urine at a job screening once to an extent that they thought they'd mixed the samples with a car crash victim! He'd run a half marathon the day before and retested the following week showed nothing.
As the triathlete says - check pre race! Not just afterwards.[/qu

There is a very big difference between having proteins in the urine and having epo in the urine.

iainf72

flattythehurdler wrote:

EPO in the urine and a hct of 52. I would say that he far more likely doped than didn't. Plenty of false positives you say. I would ask how many cases get thrown out on technicalities irrespective of guilt.

He proved the EPO test can give false positives. And the developers of the test agreed with him.

A drug test is a technical process. Technicalities are the most important aspect.

ddraver

back to the gendarmes a sec - the more cyclists getting dragged out of hotels in front of the press the better - it sends a definite signsl to the rest of the cycling world that it is not acceptable to dope and your days of hiding in the peleton with this bullshit omerta crap are numbered. This is a message that needs to go out to the youth of today, we re never gonna change the attitude of the old guard

I don't think we ll evef see a simoni - armstrong event again (i hope, coss wiggins is one of the potential simoni's IMO)

as to the labs - what can we say, THere is no reason to suspect they get these tests wrong, presumably they don't exist on the whim of the ASO so they must be testing normal, health related samples or at least other sports samples the rest of the time. If they were constantly getting it wrong there would be many other indications

iainf72

ddraver wrote:

I don't think we ll evef see a simoni - armstrong event again (i hope, coss wiggins is one of the potential simoni's IMO)

Simeoni is who you meant.

Wiggins is a potential Simeoni? You mean someone who'd dope for near on a decade and then suddenly decide he was against it?

ddraver

sorry...didn't know about the spelling or the doping........

breathing in and out slowly trying to calm down i ll be ggod now i promise - MSc thesis gettin me down