Team GB get 3 places for mens worlds

iainf72

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/New ... 37643.html

Hammond is the only Brit in the top 100 of the PT?

afx237vi

Who else has done anything? Cavendish has only won 2 PT stages in Catalunya and they're only worth 3 pts each.

Anonymous

Next highest placed Brit after Hammond is Cummings @ 118th with 7 points.

richa

Points or rankings aside, who should go for GB?

How about:
Millar
Cavendish
Hammond

dave_1

Millar, Cavendish , Hammond will struggle as they are not tooled up like AC whoever he was or Valv Piti. It's academic to debate who from GB should go when really they're out of it before the race is even started

vermooten

Dave_1 wrote:

Millar, Cavendish , Hammond will struggle as they are not tooled up like AC whoever he was or Valv Piti. It's academic to debate who from GB should go when really they're out of it before the race is even started

Filthy cheating foreigners, unlike our honest, clean British boys. Dammit where's our empire gone??

timoid.

Dave_1 wrote:

Millar, Cavendish , Hammond will struggle as they are not tooled up like AC whoever he was or Valv Piti. It's academic to debate who from GB should go when really they're out of it before the race is even started

But didn't Hammond ride for Discovery and is therefore guilty of being doped to the eyeballs? He now rides for an even dirtier team. Just ask Iain.

phil s

The course doesn't even suit Cavendish as it's lumpy

nick hanson

Dave_1 wrote:

Millar, Cavendish , Hammond will struggle as they are not tooled up like AC whoever he was or Valv Piti. It's academic to debate who from GB should go when really they're out of it before the race is even started

So,would the prefered option be to not bother sending anyone who isn't a contendor?could end up being a VERY small peloton!
There's always a chance a total outsider could come up with the goods.Seem to remember Friere being totally in the last chance saloon,& winning the worlds

afx237vi

nick hanson wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

Millar, Cavendish , Hammond will struggle as they are not tooled up like AC whoever he was or Valv Piti. It's academic to debate who from GB should go when really they're out of it before the race is even started

So,would the prefered option be to not bother sending anyone who isn't a contendor?could end up being a VERY small peloton!
There's always a chance a total outsider could come up with the goods.Seem to remember Friere being totally in the last chance saloon,& winning the worlds

Igor Astarloa, anyone? Where is he now?

iainf72

Best bet would be to select 3 guys who need some cash, and they can hire their services out to someone else for the day?

:P

Mr Bumble

I seem to remember that Tom Southam and Charly Wegelius got a b@ll@cking from GB cycling after they rode in support of their Italian team mates at the 2005 Worlds.... and left Roger Hammond without support up front...... :?

mandie

Mr Bumble wrote:

I seem to remember that Tom Southam and Charly Wegelius got a b@ll@cking from GB cycling after they rode in support of their Italian team mates at the 2005 Worlds.... and left Roger Hammond without support up front...... :?

Not that it would have made the slightest bit of difference if they had stuck with him all day

iainf72

Mr Bumble wrote:

I seem to remember that Tom Southam and Charly Wegelius got a b@ll@cking from GB cycling after they rode in support of their Italian team mates at the 2005 Worlds.... and left Roger Hammond without support up front...... :?

Wasn't the word that Bettini had thrown them some cash?

It's the problem with the worlds - In the longer term, having one of the big wigs in the peloton onside isn't a bad thing and if your team doesn't stand a chance....

leguape

I still think the whole blackballing of Wegelius and Southam is incredibly childish. Team orders were to ride for Hammond, yes, but it seems to be overlooked that Hammond wasn't going to stand a chance in a bunch sprint - who was going to lead him out or was he going to try and jump Petacchi and McEwen who were both on fire that year?

There were still 100km to go when the pair came off the front and another 3 GB riders who started the race to support Hammond, having brought the gap down to a catchable 5 minutes or so. Read the cyclingnews live and they called it right I reckon:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005/wo ... /worlds056

Given how good a domestique Charlie is now, can we afford to do without him? It's hilly this year so someone who can climb might be handy. I'd send him Daniel Lloyd and Millar to do the job. That's unless you can name me any other GB qualified riders with the proven ability to stick with Millar. If not Wegelius then send 'The Penguin' AKA Geraint Thomas, he looks tough enough and smart enough to handle it, something I don't think you could say of Cavendish this year.

suspectdevice

Wegelius
Thomas
Millar

Would they stand a chance you think?

Kléber

I think only Millar and Hammond have the class to be in the finale of the race, given it's a rolling circuit and very long course. But it depends if they want to go, if they're on form. Millar's going for the TT, so he'll be on form.

Maybe the third place could go to a promising young rider like Stannard or someone else, so they can learn the ropes? There's no point sending one of the UK "pros", they're too used to riding races that are usually under 150km long and against amateur opposition, hardly the thing to make Valverde, Zabel, Boonen or Gilbert quake.

top_bhoy

leguape wrote:

I still think the whole blackballing of Wegelius and Southam is incredibly childish. Team orders were to ride for Hammond, yes, but it seems to be overlooked that Hammond wasn't going to stand a chance in a bunch sprint - who was going to lead him out or was he going to try and jump Petacchi and McEwen who were both on fire that year?

Hammond couldn't win, that as maybe, but if I recall from that time, those two riders in question had a pre-meditated plan to the defying of team orders/instructions and that surely, deserves some type of disciplinary action against them.

Kléber

At the 2005 worlds: Geslin (who?) took third. If beating Boonen and Valverde was too much, a place in the top-10 could have been possible for Hammond.

Not one Italian made the top-10 anyway despite the efforts of Southam and Wegelius. They made a mockery of BC. BC members whose annual subscriptions paid for the pair to travel will rightly be wary of funding any more of their future travel. Their are plenty of other days each year when they can earn their money and secure contracts by solid work.

iainf72

How much do BC pay the riders to do the worlds?

Do they get paid?

leguape

Kléber wrote:

At the 2005 worlds: Geslin (who?) took third. If beating Boonen and Valverde was too much, a place in the top-10 could have been possible for Hammond.

Not one Italian made the top-10 anyway despite the efforts of Southam and Wegelius. They made a mockery of BC. BC members whose annual subscriptions paid for the pair to travel will rightly be wary of funding any more of their future travel. Their are plenty of other days each year when they can earn their money and secure contracts by solid work.

Elite events come under Olympic Podium Programme (OPP) don't they? That's largely lottery-funded, hence their selection criteria for the MTB Worlds - you need success to justify the funding and must select accordingly. BC gets more money to its programmes the more successful it is. For success you need to pick your best chances.

According to Wikipedia, Charly was forced to repay all costs to BC. He got fined but that's no reason to spit the dummy on Brailsford's part. You reckon Hammond was going to come round Geslin then? a decent sprinter with Paris-Camembert to his name and a few GT top tens? Or Julian Dean? Yeah right.

skut

i was under the impression that wegelius was permanently banned by BC from the Worlds.

My three would be Lloyd, Millar and Thomas.

I think Millar has an outside chance at the podium, and the other two would pretty much be guarenteed to ride for him. I think he just needs to learn not to show his face as early as he did last year.

teaeleye

vermooten wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

Millar, Cavendish , Hammond will struggle as they are not tooled up like AC whoever he was or Valv Piti. It's academic to debate who from GB should go when really they're out of it before the race is even started

Filthy cheating foreigners, unlike our honest, clean British boys. Dammit where's our empire gone??

don't worry, the aussies, canadians, new zealanders and any others from the colonies wil have to ride for the brits out of loyalty to the Queen,

aracer

leguape wrote:

I still think the whole blackballing of Wegelius and Southam is incredibly childish. Team orders were to ride for Hammond, yes, but it seems to be overlooked that Hammond wasn't going to stand a chance in a bunch sprint - who was going to lead him out or was he going to try and jump Petacchi and McEwen who were both on fire that year?

There were still 100km to go when the pair came off the front and another 3 GB riders who started the race to support Hammond, having brought the gap down to a catchable 5 minutes or so. Read the cyclingnews live and they called it right I reckon.

Well I don't know how you think cyclingnews called it, but don't you think it more likely to be the Italian team rather than GB who would want to have lots of work done on the front to catch the break? You're actually contradicting yourself there - given GB didn't have a sprinter it definitely wouldn't be normal for them to lead the bunch in the chase - surely that would normally be up to a team who did have a fancied rider. Whilst you're probably right that it made no difference to the result, it's impossible to tell if they might have helped later, having not made it that far with their blatant disregard for orders.

dave_1

I see David Millar was in the relatively small front group at the pro tour one day event the other day, 11th place..so I reckon he´s an outside chance of a medal at the worlds road race...top 6 is a high chance for him. As regards my earlier comments-I think millar´s comments this year on doping have been excellent and Hammond and Cavendish are in a team that does blood volume testing...this for me is reason to support them. I have no trust in many Euro teams as they are run by former pros I haven´t huge confidence in. Gianetti should go, as should others of the former Banesto team, and some of the Italians who managed Pantani and currently manage Cunego...this sport needs totally gutted at the top tier of management

iainf72

Dave_1 wrote:

I see David Millar was in the relatively small front group at the pro tour one day event the other day, 11th place..so I reckon he´s an outside chance of a medal at the worlds road race...top 6 is a high chance for him. As regards my earlier comments-I think millar´s comments this year on doping have been excellent and Hammond and Cavendish are in a team that does blood volume testing...this for me is reason to support them. I have no trust in many Euro teams as they are run by former pros I haven´t huge confidence in. Gianetti should go, as should others of the former Banesto team, and some of the Italians who managed Pantani and currently manage Cunego...this sport needs totally gutted at the top tier of management

You're applying a double standard here Dave_1. Why can T-Mobile be run by a guy who admitted, finally, that he was a needle junkie but the Italians or Spanish can't? It's not like Aldag was even admitted it up front, it wasn't until he could no longer deny it.

T-Mobile may do blood volume testing - are there any scientific papers available on this which show it working - but they rely on normal ADA's for drug testing. Because the current drug testing methods really work.

If I might channel Chuck D and Flava Flav for a minute .... Don't believe the hype.

vermooten

Kléber wrote:

Not one Italian made the top-10 anyway despite the efforts of Southam and Wegelius. They made a mockery of BC. BC members whose annual subscriptions paid for the pair to travel will rightly be wary of funding any more of their future travel. Their are plenty of other days each year when they can earn their money and secure contracts by solid work.

Didn't Southam and Wegelius have to pay the money back?

Kléber

iainf72 wrote:

a guy who admitted, finally, that he was a needle junkie

Is this the right term? The guy got bounced into admitting it but it's only from admitting past mistakes that people are going to learn things and make better choices. Once some light is shone on the problems, it can only help.

That said, we've probably not heard the full truth. Aldag didn't explain a lot, who supplied him. Zabel's admission rivalled Bill Clinton's "I didn't inhale" tale and now Sinkiewitz expects us to believe his positive test for testosterone was because he rubbed some gel on his elbow, when in order to get the massive positive he got, the guy must have sat in a bathtub of this gel.

Vermooten wrote:

Didn't Southam and Wegelius have to pay the money back?

Yes, but why pay for people to take two slots only for them to repay the money and work against you? The damage wasn't financial, it was reputational.

iainf72

Kléber wrote:

That said, we've probably not heard the full truth. Aldag didn't explain a lot, who supplied him. Zabel's admission rivalled Bill Clinton's "I didn't inhale" tale and now Sinkiewitz expects us to believe his positive test for testosterone was because he rubbed some gel on his elbow, when in order to get the massive positive he got, the guy must have sat in a bathtub of this gel.

Aldag has done nothing for T-Mobiles, in indeed Stapleton's credibility in my eyes. If Aldag wants to be a force for good why didn't he just come out and say stuff at the dawning of the new T-Mobile era? Because he doesn't believe what they're trying to do and just wants that big fat pay packet?

dave_1

iainf72 wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

I see David Millar was in the relatively small front group at the pro tour one day event the other day, 11th place..so I reckon he´s an outside chance of a medal at the worlds road race...top 6 is a high chance for him. As regards my earlier comments-I think millar´s comments this year on doping have been excellent and Hammond and Cavendish are in a team that does blood volume testing...this for me is reason to support them. I have no trust in many Euro teams as they are run by former pros I haven´t huge confidence in. Gianetti should go, as should others of the former Banesto team, and some of the Italians who managed Pantani and currently manage Cunego...this sport needs totally gutted at the top tier of management

You're applying a double standard here Dave_1. Why can T-Mobile be run by a guy who admitted, finally, that he was a needle junkie but the Italians or Spanish can't? It's not like Aldag was even admitted it up front, it wasn't until he could no longer deny it.

T-Mobile may do blood volume testing - are there any scientific papers available on this which show it working - but they rely on normal ADA's for drug testing. Because the current drug testing methods really work.

If I might channel Chuck D and Flava Flav for a minute .... Don't believe the hype.

Hi Iain
I don´t have a major problem with needle junkies managing teams if they admit they did first as pros, admit they are former cheats and want change. Riis should stay. Bruyneel will be secretive to the end as his career and life seem tied to Lance. Nothing less than a total gutting of this tier of management is required. I find Hammond and Cavenish plausible...calling for jailing dopers is what Cavendish mentioned...that´s the kind of comment I like. Indeed, I think the time has come for that 6 months in jail for fraud..plus 4 year and 2 year bans. Totally criminalize doping and make it clear you face jail for it. I´m so disilushioned with these bunch of prats the peleton mostly are now...

iainf72

Dave_1 wrote:

I find Hammond and Cavenish plausible...calling for jailing dopers is what Cavendish mentioned...that´s the kind of comment I like. Indeed, I think the time has come for that 6 months in jail for fraud..plus 4 year and 2 year bans. Totally criminalize doping and make it clear you face jail for it. I´m so disilushioned with these bunch of prats the peleton mostly are now...

If you criminalize doping though, then I would suggest you'd need proof that would stand up in a court of law And it opens a whole different can on worms - Take Hondo as an example....He got Werner Franke to testify that the level of drug he had in his system wouldve made no diffence. So if you went for a sporting fraud case then you just need to prove it didn't give you an advantage.

Aldag only confessed when forced too. He obviously thought the omerta would protect his dirty little secret.

How is Chile?