Zabel not welcome at Worlds

iainf72

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/14082007/ ... ships.html

Doping confessions really confuse the Germans.

Kléber

Since we're doing religion regarding Betsy Andreu elsewhere, perhaps It's the Protestant ethic that makes them want to punish people? Whereas in more latin countries other riders can confess, people shrug their shoulders, and that's it.

ricadus

I wonder how quickly British Cycling could organize an alternative WC at Celtic Manor if given the nod by the UCI should the German govt carry out its threat to scupper the Stuttgart event?

andyp

What a ridiculous decision. I'm sure there will be plenty of riders at the Worlds with known dodgy connections, either directly or indirectly, yet the one German rider man enough to admit he'd doped is made unwelcome.

Talk about efficiousness. :roll:

Langenberg

Kléber wrote:

Since we're doing religion regarding Betsy Andreu elsewhere, perhaps It's the Protestant ethic that makes them want to punish people? Whereas in more latin countries other riders can confess, people shrug their shoulders, and that's it.

As an aside, the whole of the West/South of Germany is catholic while the North and the East tends to be protestant.... overall it is about 50/50 catholic/protestant.

Langenberg

andyp wrote:

What a ridiculous decision. I'm sure there will be plenty of riders at the Worlds with known dodgy connections, either directly or indirectly, yet the one German rider man enough to admit he'd doped is made unwelcome.

Talk about efficiousness. :roll:

Well, the problem is that the worlds get public subsidies... and the politicians don't want to be seen as being connected to a sport with doping issues.

They also said that Valverde is not welcome although when asked re Kloeden, the sports mayor of Stuttgart said that they could not prejudge... which shows the difficulty of singling out certain people.

espoir

Is he not allowed to ride or is he just not welcome?

timoid.

I think that the rule should be that anyone who has doped cannot ride the world's and anyone currently under investigation cannot either.

Valverde is not currently being investigated (AFAIK) so should be allowed to race. Neither is Kloeden.

Di Luca, Petacchi, Piepoli should not be allowed on the start line. Zabel neither, but it must be consistent.


BTW: Does anyone seriously think Zabel took EPO once and then didn't touch another naughty substance for the rest of his career? He only didn't continue to use EPO as it didn't agree with him.

iainf72

I like this quote

Susanne Eisemann, president of the Stuttgart organising committee “I'm against it, even if we can't do anything from a legal point of view.” she stated.

I think it's rich when people get uppity about doping, which is rule breaking basically, and then would be happy enough to not follow the rules themselves.

Have they stopped all athletics events in Germany yet? Another positive reported today.

moray_gub

Timoid. wrote:

I think that the rule should be that anyone who has doped cannot ride the world's and anyone currently under investigation cannot either.

So you think David Millar should be banned for riding for GB even after having served his punishment ?

cheers
MG

SteveR_100Milers

There seems to be something of a stance from Germany at the moment, and i'm not convinced about Sinkewitz's "I reached-for-the -patch-without-thinking" crap. There is a reason why T Mobile haven't just run away yet, there's a political will in the mix somewhere.

timoid.

Moray Gub wrote:

So you think David Millar should be banned for riding for GB even after having served his punishment ?

cheers
MG

Got it in one.

He's not welcome on the olympic team. He should not represent your country at the world's either and while you're at it ban him from future national championships.

As for his trade team he can represent a mexican food chain if he likes. That's their decision.

moray_gub

Timoid. wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

So you think David Millar should be banned for riding for GB even after having served his punishment ?

cheers
MG

Got it in one.

He's not welcome on the olympic team. He should not represent your country at the world's either and while you're at it ban him from future national championships.

As for his trade team he can represent a mexican food chain if he likes. That's their decision.

I think youre being a tad harsh he has served his punishment, i see no purpose in punishing him further by banning him from those events.

cheers
MG

Langenberg

iainf72 wrote:

Have they stopped all athletics events in Germany yet? Another positive reported today.

Well, they haven't of course, but more questions are definitely being asked about other sports as well and the perception of the public is that it is not just cycling. Triathlon had a few scandals with Kai Hundertmark (remember him? ex Telekom cycle pro turned ironman triathlete) being banned from the Frankfurt Ironman plus questions around Lothar Leder, prob Germany's most distinguished Ironman. The Frankfurt Ironman organisers take a stance that if they are not happy with the blood profile of an athlete or that athlete has not signed an anti doping declaration, they ban them from all competitions they organise, whether that athlete is strictly speaking positive or not.

ARD have just broadcasted what appears to be very in depth review of doping across sports. Questions are also being asked re boxing which has been a big sport for the public broadcasters.... whether this will ever mean that athletics or, God forbid, football would have to endure more scrutiny is a different matter of course.

Eurostar

Timoid. wrote:

BTW: Does anyone seriously think Zabel took EPO once and then didn't touch another naughty substance for the rest of his career? He only didn't continue to use EPO as it didn't agree with him.

First I thought, 'gosh, wasn't he amazing to have won all those green jerseys clean.' Then I thought he must surely have tried absolutely bloody everything. Am I right in thinking that sprinters find it easier to dope, because if they have a team able to get them near the front all they really need is a brief burst in peak power, which can be gained from assorted steroids etc? Recovery isn't much of an issue if you never go in any breaks, so perhaps you could leave the EPO alone. On the other hand I suppose you need to be fresh as a daisy when you start your sprint(s) every day.

timoid.

Moray Gub wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

So you think David Millar should be banned for riding for GB even after having served his punishment ?

cheers
MG

Got it in one.

He's not welcome on the olympic team. He should not represent your country at the world's either and while you're at it ban him from future national championships.

As for his trade team he can represent a mexican food chain if he likes. That's their decision.

I think youre being a tad harsh he has served his punishment, i see no purpose in punishing him further by banning him from those events.

cheers
MG

Not really. By doping he brings his nation into disrepute. He had to hand back his TT gold medal ffs. How awful for Britain is that? Part of competing in the WC is making your nation proud. How can you do that when you're sullied?

moray_gub

Not really. By doping he brings his nation into disrepute. He had to hand back his TT gold medal ffs. How awful for Britain is that?Part of competing in the WC is making your nation proud. How can you do that when you're sullied?[/quote]

He brought his nation not brings ............II still think your being harsh you obviously dont belive in rehabilitation or a chance to rectify your wrongs. I think Millar is a good ambassador for GB cycling at the moment i am happy to see him ride for GB he has done his time , he should be left to get on with his career and if that means reprsenting GB then fine.


cheers
MG

Milram-fan

What a farce. Rather than commend riders for having the decency to admit to having made a mistake we begin to ban them whilst the real cowards and cheats stay quiet and ride.
Why on earth would a rider admit to doping now??? How are we going to tackle the issue of doping if we start banning the riders who are trying to be part of the solution?

dave_1

Timoid. wrote:

I think that the rule should be that anyone who has doped cannot ride the world's and anyone currently under investigation cannot either.

Valverde is not currently being investigated (AFAIK) so should be allowed to race. Neither is Kloeden.

Di Luca, Petacchi, Piepoli should not be allowed on the start line. Zabel neither, but it must be consistent.


BTW: Does anyone seriously think Zabel took EPO once and then didn't touch another naughty substance for the rest of his career? He only didn't continue to use EPO as it didn't agree with him.

Yes Timoid, it seems odd that Zabel´s right hand man Aldag used EPO for 7 years while his mate was clean. Still, at least Zabel came clean and set an example. He should be allowed to continue in the sport

NervexProf

Dave_1 wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

I think that the rule should be that anyone who has doped cannot ride the world's and anyone currently under investigation cannot either.

Valverde is not currently being investigated (AFAIK) so should be allowed to race. Neither is Kloeden.

Di Luca, Petacchi, Piepoli should not be allowed on the start line. Zabel neither, but it must be consistent.


BTW: Does anyone seriously think Zabel took EPO once and then didn't touch another naughty substance for the rest of his career? He only didn't continue to use EPO as it didn't agree with him.

I support your point of view Dave - Zabel, to me is the complete pro rider -and all round through the season rider whose palmares are a testament to his devotion to our sport.

I must commend his honesty in retrospectively admitting his once only transgression.

Yes Timoid, it seems odd that Zabel´s right hand man Aldag used EPO for 7 years while his mate was clean. Still, at least Zabel came clean and set an example. He should be allowed to continue in the sport

top_bhoy

Naively, I thought that Zabel was one of few who hadn't doped - to find out otherwise was a huge shock and disappointment. However, although he has confessed, he has only done it in the late twilight of his career at a time in which it didn't really affect his earning potential or his career winnings to date nor could it affect his TdF jerseys.

If it was several years ago then that would be setting an example, following on from a series of confessions from Telekom teammates of that era, it was only a matter of time before the truth was out on him also, so it was hardly the act of a brave man - more damage limitation. Although at the end of his career, a ban would have been better served on him.