what would you do,..

delcol

this has been posted elsewere on the forum but wanted to see wheather you fellow commuters can advice or know anything on leagal rights,..

what would you do if you were in my shoes...

after much debating and research i finally decided on my new full bouncer mtb,
all i will say is its expensive and american,.

after looking around i found a shop who had an amazing offer on the chosen bike i contacted them and after a brief disscusion i decided to order the bike.

i placed my order at the beginging of june and paid in full for the frame the guy on the phone gave me the price with the promised 15% discount which i paid there and then on my card, he told me it will be 7 weeks before the frame arrives i was ok with this,.
then there was a 2 week delay i was fine with this then my frame finally arrives so they contact me to tell me i then ask them if they can build it to the spec i had enquired about when i ordered the bike and they agreed even matched the cheaper prices i found on the parts on the net, so i come to pay for the parts on the bike only to be told that the manufacturer has sent the latest mk2 version of the frame and it costs more now i specified when i ordered the frame that i wanted the latest 07 version eveb provided a link to their website with the bike on it. which they said they had ordered and i shouldnt worry.. now the shop is sayin that i owe this extra money cause the manufacturer has sent the lateset mk 2 version of the bike. the one i wanted and ordered,.. so what do i do pay the difference and get the bike stick to my guns and dispute this extra charge or cancel and get the bike from else were and get my money back.

i think when i ordered the bike the guy on the phone charged me last years price which was cheaper, i did enquire about this the day after and they told me that it was the 07 new version they were supplying not to worry and the price was so cheap cause they are a new shop only 6 months old ad are tryin to get a good customer base..

what should i do time is ticking on this one any help much appriciated

sorry for the repost just fast running out of time on this and hope that some out there can help me as to were i stand.

i am still waiting 4 days on for oft to get back to me..

tiny_pens

First - I am not a lawyer

However this looks like standard consumer rights type issue. Your local trading standards office can give you the best advice and explain how to write the correct legal letter containing the relevant legal references.

If memory serves me right then this ought to be covered by the distance selling regulations. Basically you have enterred into a contract with the shop for them to sell you a bike of a particular specification. They may choose to change the specification of the product at no extra cost to the consumer but must inform you of the change and give you the option to reject this change. This is why bike websites have the phrase, 'the specification may may change without warning' or something similar - basically so that if shimano go out of business they can change to an alternative part.

At the very minimum you have the right to a full refund as you are no longer being offered the product you asked for. However you may chose to accept a change in the specification of the bike but there is no onus on you to accept a change in the cost. Remember the shop has enterred into the contract as well and the contract has been sealed by taking payment. In theory you could sue if they failed to deliver the original specified bike but in practice you have to remember that many bike shops are set up by people who are experts in sales and repair of bikes, not contract law.

In your situation I would phone up and say that I wasn't willing to accept the change to the price but was happy with the change of specification. If that fails explain that under the goods and sales act of 1989 that I was eligible for a full refund (trading standards are good at giving out templates for complaints letters if they are bolshy about this)

Hope this helps

Tiny Pens

Massimo

Tiny_pens is right, ask 'em for a refund and say you'll go elsewhere. The chances are they'll come back with an offer that suits you both. BTW, don't lose your temper, that will cause them to dig their heels in all the more. Be polite and you'll be surprised with what you get...

A - W

Tell them to keep their bike and get my money back.

WyS

yah money back and buy british! orange make proper nice bikes.

alfablue

I believe they are obliged to supply the bike to you at the contracted price - try and get that enforced - if they withdraw from the contract then you might have a claim against them to cover your extra costs of buying the item elsewhere. Do contact trading standards if things get sticky - they should help, but on occasions some departments are a bit soft and don't really persue the letter of the law.

mea00csf

Did you get a reciept for the deposit that was paid? Does it have the amount paid and outstanding balance to be paid on it? If there is i would suggest this with the advice above would be very helpful, particularly the outstanding balance (or anything with the full amount to be paid rather than just a reciept for the deposit alone)

Better still if you have a more detailed reciept of exactly what you have ordered off them.

delcol

i dont have the receipt they still have it.

i ordered just the frame over the phone and paid the price they quoted me there and then with the agreed discount,. i paid it in full there and then...

i then asked if they would price match the parts for my new bike. ie forks bars stem ect

which they did so i asked them to spec the bike up for me, it was when i came to pay for the parts i had asked for that this extra charge came to light which i have questioned now it seems to be their mistake and cockup charging me last years price which is £150 less this is for the frame that i had paid for in full 2 motnhs earlier,..

i have my cc bill that proves i paid them x amount,.. in june,...

alfablue

Hmm - ask themfor a copy of the receipt. Will it include details of what you ordered? Whatever you do, I personally would rather not have the bike than pay the extra - they may have been dumb rather than crooked, but trying to get you to cover their error is crooked IMHO!

If you don't go through with the sale they will have the problem of selling it to someone else, which may not be easy. If they refuse a refund you will have legal redress, but the simplest way may be to get your CC to refund you.

delcol

this story gets better..

i got my final bill of them last night for my complete bike and its gone up yet again,..

its gone up nearly £300 in two weeks,..

i told them i aint happy with the price and that they cant change the price with out contacting me to ok it,. and it definatly aint ok with me....

they still aint got back to me yet,.. i will be ringing them tomorrow to end this once and for all,....

3 time now the price has changed i paid for the frame in full when i ordered the bike,. now they want more money then even more money...

dangerousjules

when you say you got your last bill and its gone up by £300 am i to take it that they have your card details and are charging the remaining balance as a mail order? (without you being present) if they are charging you without your permision they really are in the shit since they are breaking the law big time, i think some serious consideration and perhaps some legal advice might be worthwhile.

bianco

Claim your money back through your CC, I mean, aren't they holding you to randsom??

dangerousjules

by the way have you ordered litespeed, merlin etc?

Gambatte

delcol wrote:

this has been posted elsewere on the forum but wanted to see wheather you fellow commuters can advice or know anything on leagal rights,..

Out of curiosity, where else on the forums is this posted?

Wouldn't mind checking out any other answers..

Buggi

they can't charge you more for the frame if you've already paid for it, and they can't charge you more on the othere stuff without giving you the option first.

if you've paid by Credit Card and they've already charged it to your account phone your credit card company and tell them what has happened. they have a lot of weight on things like this, because not only can they make them refund the money they can refuse to do business with them in future.

contact trading standards for more advice on the legalities, sounds like the shop is definitely in the wrong. if you pick a tin of beans up in Sainsbury's and it says on the shelf its 20p and when you get to the checkout it's 25p, the shop has to sell it to you at 20p. In effect, you've already agreed a price and the shop can't change their mind when you get to the till. it's the same with any shop. you already agreed a price, they can't change their mind when you get to the till.

Cakey

Buggi wrote:

if you pick a tin of beans up in Sainsbury's and it says on the shelf its 20p and when you get to the checkout it's 25p, the shop has to sell it to you at 20p. In effect, you've already agreed a price and the shop can't change their mind when you get to the till. it's the same with any shop. you already agreed a price, they can't change their mind when you get to the till.

Buggi, this isn't correct - the price on the shelf is an invitation to you to make them an offer at that price-point, the contract comes at the till when the shop agrees to accept the price you offer. Think of the price tag as the opening bid in a bout of haggling, which is traditionally very short in supermarkets, but could be lengthy when buying a second hand car!!

it is quite well explained here - http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem.cgi?file=ADV1011-1111.txt

The price on display - such as the price on the actual goods, the shelf edge price, the price given in an advertisement or on a website - forms what is called 'an invitation to treat'. This means that the price given by the trader forms part of an invitation for the prospective buyer to make an offer to buy, which the trader is entitled to either accept or reject. The buyer cannot insist that a trader sells anything at the marked price, whether or not they have made a mistake. The law does not allow prices to be fixed and, contrary to common belief, goods are not subject to price controls.

Delcol's issue is slightly different I think, in that the price he offered has been accepted; the difficult bit would be proving it I guess, as it was agreed verbally, over the phone.

From the same Trading Standards article

If a consumer orders goods, the trader accepts the order and the price is agreed, but later the trader says the price has gone up, the consumer should only have to pay the price given at the time the order was placed or, alternatively, the consumer could cancel the order. Some contracts where goods are supplied as part of a service, such as double glazing, include clauses stating that the price may be subject to change after a 'survey' has been carried out. If a consumer is not happy with the revised price, the order can usually be cancelled.

Delcol, I'd go with Massimo's advice and tell them you are backing out based on the guidance above... they might come round to your way of thinking.

Cakey

DPV

I hate to raise this possibility, but are you certain that you are dealing with a legitimate shop? This pattern of escalation, where they collect incremental amounts from you without ever delivering product, reminds me very much of the typical trajectory of sales fraud (vendor is selling a product that doesn't exist, possibly through fraudulently registered websites or nonexistent shops listed only online).
It's possible that you're dealing with a legitimate vendor, maybe a small shop owner who is over his head for various reasons, but given your story so far I would start looking for signs of fraud very carefully.

delcol

thanks again for your replys,

its posted in the mtb section
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12540247

the issue was i ordred my frame they gave me the price which i paid in full,

then 8 weeks later frame arrives and i am told its the newest 07 version (santcruz hecler) and it costs more 150 quid more,...

then i ask the shop for my final bill for th built bike and its gone up again by 161 quid.

i now know why they have not subtracted my agreed 15% discount..

they told me before and on day of purchase i would get 15% of srp, which i have not been givern.

they have only charged me for my frame upto now but they charged me last years price which is 150 pound less than the 07..

i owe for the parts they put on the bike that i requested but this is were my bill doesnt add up,.. it only adds up if i pay the srp of the frame,. hence no discount,.. i only agreed to buy the frame off of them cause of this discount,..

the shop is real i have spoke to them on many occasion even been on their website they also have a advert in mbuk monthly..

my complaint is they promised me the 15% discount but in my bill in the end it aint there..

delcol

RESULT.

after much complaining and moaning and many an email with facts and figures stated,

i got the result i wanted to here last night they have accepted they made a mistake and changed my bill and gave me the discount i was promised..

just up to me now weather or not to go through with the sale or ask for my money back....

who said comlaining was bad. :twisted: