Thorn Raven - rohloff opinions please

lloyd_bower

No doubt been done to death, apologies but what is people's opinions of the Thorn Rohloff equiped bikes for touring. I'm considering getting one, though the write up in the recent CTC Cyle magazine wasn't totally complementary, opinion was too noisey for touring?
I previously toured with an old rigid steel mtn bike, fitted up with mtn bike gearing, slick tyres and rear panniers.
Also what Thorn model? Raven Sport strangely has the front brake behind the fork, Catalyst with rigid Pace forks offering some potential off road.

How's the gear changing? I know drop bars isn't a feasible option but as I say I've pre toured with rigid mtn bike equiped with flat bars and bar ends so this shouldn't be a great problem.

I know there are some opinions on Thorn's own forum, but I'd guess people aren't going to be suggesting too many negatives there.

Separate subject but is titanium really bad for touring? the Thorn website has a real downer on them ...all the titanium frames we have known have also broken.... surely this must be garbage or people wouldn't be using 'em.

jibi

I have a Thorn Raven Catalyst with Rohloff, and Fox Vanilla RLC lock off forks

After two long tours, (see my sig for details), my opinion.....

Absolutely perfect, after 1000km the gears are silent, precise, and instant.

All I have done is to change the oil in the Hub. and the chain every 3000Km ( eccentric bottom bracket).


No negative from me either ,

george

alfablue

lloyd bower wrote:

Separate subject but is titanium really bad for touring? the Thorn website has a real downer on them ...all the titanium frames we have known have also broken.... surely this must be garbage or people wouldn't be using 'em.

I think Thorn may have an overly jaundiced view of Titanium, but they can and do break, however I have had a Ti MTB for 7 years that has handled really harsh treatment off road and is now converted as my commuter/tourer - the frame has been completely sound. The fact that it was an mtb frame I presume would mean that it is well suited (if not overbuilt) to take the rigors of touring (only minus point is limited heel clearance, but my Tubus rack sorted that out).

Are there actually any full-on tourers made from Ti? I know there are plenty of Audax type bikes, can't recall seeing a proper tourer.

I think the main objection to Ti would be that it is extremely difficult to weld and is therefore effectively unrepairable except by a very small number of specialists, which are bound not to be available wherever you find yourself in the world. I certainly would not use Ti for a major expedition tour, but I am happy with it in the UK and Europe.

Steel is supposedly repairable by virtually any reasonably skilled welder, however, this may have to be taken with a pinch of salt when considering some of the more high-end steel tubes.

alfablue

Oh - a little Googling and I found a Ti Touring frame: Setavento - it looks good! Only £800.

PHcp

lloyd bower wrote:

the write up in the recent CTC Cyle magazine wasn't totally complementary, opinion was too noisey for touring?

Have you read the Cycle review of the Raven?
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/thornpdf/C ... Review.pdf

Or any of the other reviews
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/reviews.html

Goes to show that different people have diferent opinions, it isn't the same as riding other bikes, it does have minuses as well as pluses, which is why you get 100 days to make your own mind up.
I've posted my experiences on the Thorn website. You're right, you won't find many negatives there. People either like the bike and are positive, or don't like the bike, get their money back and are at worst neutral.

fatfreddy

lloyd bower wrote:

CTC Cyle magazine wasn't totally complementary, opinion was too noisey for touring?
.

Good grief - too noisy for touring? What does this mean? It's going to scare the horses? I sometimes wonder about people who review bikes - they have to find some negative no matter how trivial in order to appear 'balanced'.

I have a Raven Sport Tour - the Rolhoff is fantastic - wish I could afford to have it on all my bikes. I've never noticed the noise - perhaps it's my age - or the fact that i'm just having fun riding the bike.

People either love Thorn or hate them (usually the headset police) - I'm a convert. You can have a 100 day trial.

FF

Philip Davis

I can't comment on the Thorn, but IMO the Rohloff is a vast improvement on dereilleurs for touring. No hassles, minimal maintenance, few things to break or get bend on aircraft or buses. Oh, and you can change gear when at a standstill. Having done various tours from the Himalaya to Japan on one, I'd not even consider going back to dereilleurs. The noise is a mild annoyance sometimes, but it eases off over time.

The Thorn bikes look good, but for me they are a little too overengineered. The ones I've seen close up just seem to heavy for me. I put a Rohloff on an On One Inbred frame, which works quite well. I've been thinking for a while about putting one on my Kona Unit (singlespeed version of the Explosif steel frame). I think you'd get a lighter more responsive (and better looking) bike than the Thorn, except without all the little touring touches Thorn have, and maybe you'd lose a little stiffness under heavy load.

For a really amazing looking titanium touring frame, check out the Tufnut from Atum22:


http://www.atum22.com/

PHcp

fatfreddy wrote:

Good grief - too noisy for touring? What does this mean? It's going to scare the horses? I sometimes wonder about people who review bikes - they have to find some negative no matter how trivial in order to appear 'balanced'.

FF

It's a personal opinion written by one of the most experienced cycling journalists we have. His reservations are balanced with the advice to " read Thorns informative Living with a Rohloff article and make your own mind up"
I like my Rohloff, but can see why it wouldn't suit everyone. I know of two people who have tried and rejected them.

postiebrian

Just had my Roberts Roughstuff changed to a Rohloff after a three week fully loaded
tour of France I would not go back to dereilleur gears, and as for the and as for the coffee
grinder noise as per the CTC review whats the guy on?There is a noise but its more then
the dereilleurs make and after a while it goes away the pluses outweigh this anyway.
Once you get the gearing right I'v gone for a 16 rear 38 front rings it gives plenty of
low gears and a max of 25mph? in top you can go for a larger rear ring witch would give
you higher gearing.
Happy Days
Postiebrian.

Magnus Thor

I have been riding a Thorn Raven Catalyst for the last 3 years, commuting and touring, and I can't fault it. It's not light and it doesn't look particularly "cool" but it works and looks to keep on working. The Rohloff hub is a vast improvement on deraileurs for it's intended purpose and it's wonderfull to have a bike you don't have to worry about, even if you have been out in the mud for several hours...

Magnus Thor
Iceland

jibi

Two people rejected them!!!!!!
Everyone who test rides my bike, and there have been a lot, would love a Rohloff.

george

PHcp

jibi wrote:

Two people rejected them!!!!!!
Everyone who test rides my bike, and there have been a lot, would love a Rohloff.

Yes, one of them after a test ride in Bridgewater and the other swapped their tandem for a derailleur model after about a month.
I wonder how many bikes Thorn get back, I doubt they’d ever tell you. As a percentage it’s probably small, but they seem to have a steady supply of nearly new machines for sale.

jalapeno

I had a Rohloff for a while, about 1500km.. it drove me nuts in the end with the wooly shift and noise. Unfortunately i was born a roadie and an engineer and couldn't live with it.

lloyd_bower

jibi wrote:

I have a Thorn Raven Catalyst with Rohloff, and Fox Vanilla RLC lock off forks

After two long tours, (see my sig for details), my opinion.....

Absolutely perfect, after 1000km the gears are silent, precise, and instant.

All I have done is to change the oil in the Hub. and the chain every 3000Km ( eccentric bottom bracket).


No negative from me either ,

george

Thanks for the posts so far.

Interesting site with your touring reports from South America Jibi.
A few questions if you don't mind.
- You say you change the oil in the hub every 3000k, is it pretty straighforward to do out on the road, as it seems you covering that distance on tour?
- The Fox Vanilla fork on your Raven, do you use it 'unlocked' touring often?
- Finally, I'm currently considering destinations for last minute December touring trip, If you had only 4 weeks where in Chile/Argentina would you go? say ~100k/120k a day.


alfablue,

.....Oh - a little Googling and I found a Ti Touring frame: Setavento - it looks good! Only £800.

That titanium touring frame certainly seems interesting.

jibi

HI
Changing oil is very easy, if you have all the gear, the syringe and tubes etc. Takes about 20 minutes. There is a video on the SJS website.

4 weeks.... I would go back to ...Region Los Lagos from Puerto Varras ( or Puerto Montt} up through Villarrica , Pucon. to Temuco, See the volcanoes and lakes, beautiful place

Or north of Santiago, Los Andes San Felipe then out to the coast, so many choices , it all depends what you like to do

I use lock/unlock all the time, Lock going uphill and unlock downhill.

Tailwinds

george

graemetherunner

Another Ti supplier that does custom Ti frames inc rohloff & S&S
http://www.burls.co.uk
I think the Thorn comments on Ti are unjustified - if you built a ti bike out of 'old gas tube' type tubes then I'm sure it will also never break & be heavy etc etc.

lets compare like with like!
If thorns comments were based on the raleigh dynatech Ti - then yes I can agree... I've also seen 2 break.

If Ti is so unrelaible... why is it used in circumstances where failure would mean death - aerospace, submarines, surgery / medicine.

this is very subjective, but worth watching out of interest - Ti v alloy v carbon (shame no steel)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0zj6CKYXUo

alfablue

Yes, I believe it will be mostly down to the quality of the welding and the design of the frame, whatever the material

deafie

I just did 550 miles on my new Raven Nomad fully loaded with camping gear etc. I love the bike but the gear change is a little sloppy. This has recently been discussed on the Thorn forum and will, by all accounts, improve with age. The gear change is not an issue with me but I think it should be mentioned.
I disagree that the Ravens are over engineered. when I hit 39 mph on dirt roads with potholes and fist sized rocks with no suspension I was delighted with the build. I'd take the bike anywhere with confidence. I just won't use it as a daily runaround as I have better suited and much cheaper bikes for that.

DomT

I love the Rohloff now, but saying that I had second thoughts when I purchased it. At the time it felt like it required extra effort. But after 500miles or so it became noticeably smoother.

As for the sticky gear changes, I've only noticed it a couple of times and it is becoming less frequent now. On my last tour it only happened once, but on my first tour with the Rohloff I noticed that the sticky gear occurred 3/4 times.

geocycle

I just read CJs article and was surprised at the 'noisy for touring' comment (even though it is balanced by the next sentence). It's true that first time out on tour I was riding up a very quiet village street in 7th and a couple of pedestrians appeared to have heard my approach. A year on I am completely conviced by the rohloff and now only notice 6th and 7th, the rest of the gears are nearly silent (much more so than on my derraileur bikes). Even with 6th and 7th, when offroad or on a rough tarmac surface its hard to hear the rohloff. I regularly surprise wildlife and birds unaware of my approach. I've never had a problem with sticky changing although some folk have reported this.

The raven tour is the most versatile bike i have ever owned and will suit most people most of the time. Exceptions would include those who 's priority is weight (maybe for unladen day rides or fast climbing), or those wanting very closely spaced gearing for racing. There are also more elegant machines out there, but looks were not my priority. Instead I sought understated excellence and versatility which it satifies very well indeed.

daviddd

I've done around 1500 km since buying the Thorn Raven Tour and I'm not disappointed. Thorn sorted a minor niggle out immediately and I'm very impressed with their support. One day we had a three-way conversation between Robin Thorn, one of the staff and myself about the pro's and cons of carbon bars offroad - it wasn't any trouble to them. Good service is not common; that in itself this is a good reason to buy a Thorn.

As for Rohloff, it's great - OK some minor noise in low gears, but I spend most of my time in gears 9 to 14 and the noise is in the lower gears of 1 to 6. For loaded touring I would def recommend a gear combo at the low end of the available range - I'm right at the lower extreme such that I can haul full panniers up a very steep slope in gear 1 - an 18" gear (1 pedal rev for every 18"). I haven't changed oil yet, just about to do this before heading off to cycle around Oz for a year, so check out my website for updates as to how the Thorn / Rohloff is performing

I was pretty worrried about the straight handlebar bar position having ridden drops all my life, but with a bit of intuitive juggling around with everything I have found a very comfy position, that enables me to get at least as low for heading into winds as I was on drops.
I've got the carbon comfort bars with carbon bar ends mounted inboard as you can see in the pic (aren't images allowed in the posts?).
The bar position has really grown on me.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v321/daviddd/?action=view&current=IMG_0021-1.jpg

jibi

For david

take out the ?action stuff
I used

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v321/ ... 0021-1.jpg

george
PS I fly out to Perth on 20th Sept for my 1 year round OZ

daviddd

Thanks George. You're going 20 Sept?! You bu**er you'll have 2 weeks start on me! S'not a race is it lol?
Given favourable tailwinds on the Nullabor I may catch you by Melbourne....er - are you going anticlockwise?

good on yer man!!

(we should go for joint sponsorship from Thorn / Rohloff!!)

jibi

anti clockwise

Perth to Melbourne

You got any couches yet?

I just got my free tyres,,,,,,Marathon XR Evolutions. ( review to follow)

george

daviddd

No, not 'booked' any couches yet - I may just camp in most of WA / SA and start CS'ing at Adelaide.
Where'd'ye get the free boots?

jibi

Hi david

I have had to change my booking and now fly on the 26th and land in Perth 28th Sept, if you are starting from there too I only have one week start now.

I got my free "boots" from a friend who thought my Marathon Plus was looking threadbare,

Are you starting from Perth?

I could find things to do for a week if you fancy helping an old guy across the Nullabor

george

Cunobelin

I took my wife down to Thorn with the idea of trying a Rohloff, and was impressed by the ease of use and efficiency.

Although my wife was a little cynical on the way down, we are now the expectant parents of a Tour for her and a Nomad for me!

jibi

Cunobelin wrote:

I took my wife down to Thorn with the idea of trying a Rohloff, and was impressed by the ease of use and efficiency.

Although my wife was a little cynical on the way down, we are now the expectant parents of a Tour for her and a Nomad for me!

I bet you have a lot of offers to be godparents

Remember that the new arrivals will make a lot of noise , but as it gets older things will get better.

congratulations are in order

Welcome to sanity

george

vernonlevy

Philip Davis wrote:

I can't comment on the Thorn, but IMO the Rohloff is a vast improvement on dereilleurs for touring. No hassles, minimal maintenance, few things to break or get bend on aircraft or buses. Oh, and you can change gear when at a standstill. Having done various tours from the Himalaya to Japan on one, I'd not even consider going back to dereilleurs. The noise is a mild annoyance sometimes, but it eases off over time.

I've never had to adjust my indexed derralleurs since I replaced the mechanisms three years and 7,000 miles ago. Never bent them and I've never had the need to change gear when at a standstill. Just replace chain rings as they wore out and chains when approaching their stretch limits. My gears are silent throughout their range and have been since their installation. None of the marketing points of SJS about the merits of Rohlhoff have convinced me that the hub gear system is worth spending a small fortune on. I don't disl;ike the system - I just can't justify the expense for no discernible gains.

Cunobelin

Welcome to sanity

Not quite........

Although Andy did break into a smile when we discussed trying to duplicate the Nomad into my present touring bike's position:

I ride a Street Machine GT and a Catrike Expedition!

I completed the English Coast and Borders last year and have now done Scotland as far as a C2C at Edinburgh / Glasgow.

Whist not as adventurous as it could be I needed a reliable bikle that could go on a bus / Coach / Taxi / Train if I get stuck in more remote areas of Scotland and the Islands which are my next project. Whlst the recumbents can certainly do the miles and routes, they lack this latter capability due to their bulk.

The coupling of the S&s gives that reassurance.

Roll on mid-October!

daviddd

jibi wrote:

Hi david

I have had to change my booking and now fly on the 26th and land in Perth 28th Sept, if you are starting from there too I only have one week start now.

I got my free "boots" from a friend who thought my Marathon Plus was looking threadbare,

Are you starting from Perth?

I could find things to do for a week if you fancy helping an old guy across the Nullabor

george

...you and I are about the same age George.....and your TT'ing is much faster than mind lol. Guess it'd be nice to draft in a strong easterly!