Water in frame

tcs05

I have a Trek, full carbon fibre bike. I was out riding in the rain for about 6 hrs the other day and when I got home the frame was full of water (seriously, there was masses, probably 300mls at least). I have emptied it out and left the saddle off to allow the frame to dry out. A few questions:

Can dampness inside the frame cause problems for the frame...can the carbon fibre de-laminate or anything?

Any ideas how to stop it happening again... not sure where it got in I was worried about greasing parts...esp the saddle post...as I have heard it can cause damage to the carbon fibre.

craiguk

I would suspect that the most likely place for water to enter the frame would be by running down the seat post and getting in that way. I have seen some riders who have placed a short section of inner tube on the seat post and over the top of the seat post clamp to stop this. Sounds like a good idea although not a particularly elegant solution. If you have an alloy seat post then a good application of grease should be enough to stop water ingress.

olr1

Drill a small hole under the BB, it's what the pro Disco mechanics do. Otherwise the water will not do any harm, BBs are sealed units.......

guido298

I have a carbon Trek and found the same problem. I was told you must never put grease on a carbon seat post, so the solution seems to be drilling the hole under the BB.

yinya

well, i have a similar problem - the frame i can get the water out when I hang the bike up.

But, I have a CXP33 rimmed wheel on the back and that get's some water in it as well. Don't know how and am too lazy to take the tyre-tube off to let it dry. How does the water get in there and any problems with not stripping it down?

top_bhoy

Will drilling a hole under the BB cause stress concentrations - it may well do, resulting in a weakened frame (you won't see these stress concentrations unless you have it specially tested). Remember, Disco will probably be provided with new bikes every year. I'd go back to the Trek dealer first and get their opinion and recommendation. If it needs done, let the dealer do it, to do anything else may invalidate warranties.

olr1

There's already a hole there for the BB cable guide screw, you could either just unscrew it every so often, or get a hollow screw from your friendly neighbourhood Trek dealer, or stop messing and drill it. The bb is a metal shell bonded into the carbon, so a small hole doesn't cause any problems.

malcolm_the_badger

Trek have 'modified' the bolt holding cable guide to bottom bracket shell.Either order one or do what I did,drill through bolt.

penugent

tcs05 wrote:

Can dampness inside the frame cause problems for the frame...can the carbon fibre de-laminate or anything?

I take it you are not from the old C+ forum - if you were you would realise from past discussions, RE: frame materials, that carbon is so fragile that it dissolves in water :shock:

domtyler

A small hole will not let the water out due to its surface tension. It will need to be of a reasonable size if you want it to actually work.
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Interestedcp

tcs05 wrote:

Can dampness inside the frame cause problems for the frame...can the carbon fibre de-laminate or anything?

Considering that a major application for carbon fibres is boat building I really don't think so.

tcs05 wrote:

Any ideas how to stop it happening again... not sure where it got in I was worried about greasing parts...esp the saddle post...as I have heard it can cause damage to the carbon fibre.

The water usually comes in by the seatpost. Use Tacx's special carbon fibre compound, or something similar; It can seal the seatpost like grease does , doesn't harm the carbon etc.

I personally wouldn't recommend drilling any holes in the BB area. It probably destroys the warranty, the hole may act as a stress riser and may cause the BB to crack under load. Carbon is a finicky material to work with and may flake and spall if the tools aren't good enough. Besides the carbon dust from the drilling is very, very nasty stuff to breathe. To avoid getting it in your lungs probably requires breathing protection of some kind.

So if a special carbon paste from Tacx or FSA etc, may solve the problem for a few quids, why bother with drilling at all.

AFAIK grease as such doesn't damage carbon, but it can soften the clearcoat layer so that the seat post can get really wedged in, making it very difficult to get it out.

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Regards

Shavedlegs

I had water get into my frame, I'm pretty certain it was coming in through a worn out headset. I've since replaced the headset but haven't been out in the rain since. I have to say I'm relieved someone else has experienced a water filled frame.

tcs05

Thanks everyone. I am too much of a chicken to drill my frame so I am going to contact Trek about the replacement bolt, try some carbon fibre compound grease, and perhaps most importantly, avoid the rain!

TheNomad

The answer to carbon delaminating with damp is no, else the fishing tackle industry wouldn't be using it for rods, poles and numerous other items (with poles costing upwards of £2000+ for high end models, there is no margin for getting it wrong).

aracer

Never had a problem with cf kayaks delaminating despite impact damage repaired with gaffer tape.

bikerbill

I got water in mine during the recent floods here in Gloucestershire. Up over the top of the wheels it was and extraordinarily hard to pedal through. The wheel rims filled up too; you could hear it sloshing around. I just drained it all out and squirted some WD40 into it (it's steel) Not really bothered about it rusting because it's a good excuse to buy something new.

As for water damaging carbon fibre frames, I somehow doubt it. After all, there must be millions of boats in the world made of GRP and they seem to cope fairly well.

Bill

Hugh A

yinya wrote:

well, i have a similar problem - the frame i can get the water out when I hang the bike up.

But, I have a CXP33 rimmed wheel on the back and that get's some water in it as well. Don't know how and am too lazy to take the tyre-tube off to let it dry. How does the water get in there and any problems with not stripping it down?

I don't think there is a way of stopping the water getting in. It happens on any longish ride with heavy rain or very wet roads - it can come in the spoke holes as well as the valve hole and takes ages to dry out by evaporation through the same route unless the tyres are removed.

I'd be interested to hear of any solution, although I dare say buying factory wheels with no spoke penetration like kysiriums and sealing round the valve hole would work. Now I think about it wasn't there a similar thread before where someone reported a 'friend' of his filling up a rim with silicon by mistake?!

adifiddler

aracer wrote:

Never had a problem with cf kayaks delaminating despite impact damage repaired with gaffer tape.

Most CF kayaks have in fact got a carbon fiber laminate over a Kevlar or glass fiber shell it is this shell that gives the strength, some use a mix of CF and Kevlar fibers knitted together. Pure CF kayaks are very brittle.

I would not be drilling a carbon frame.

aracer

adifiddler wrote:

aracer wrote:

Never had a problem with cf kayaks delaminating despite impact damage repaired with gaffer tape.

Most CF kayaks have in fact got a carbon fiber laminate over a Kevlar or glass fiber shell it is this shell that gives the strength, some use a mix of CF and Kevlar fibers knitted together. Pure CF kayaks are very brittle.

I suspect that given I have a pure cf outer shell sandwich boat sitting right outside the window here (no kevlar or glass in the outside layer of the sandwich - some kevlar on the inner layer, though that is a completely separate layer separated by foam, which does nothing to help the outer layer be less brittle) that I may know better. No proper cf kayak builds that I know of use glass in the construction - though some also have kevlar, which does give better impact protection. Unsurprisingly glass isn't particularly good at resisting impact either :roll: which is why diolen is used in cheaper boats. The only time I managed to damage this was in the sort of impact which would damage any construction - it's a lot less brittle than you seem to think.

What that has to do with delamination when wet I don't know though!